the queer folks thread

ShadyStump said:
If you can't POLITELY disagree with someone, you're the problem.

Though some folks would happily debate translations of the Bible and how they might influence your world view. That's totally on the table, too.

I am of the mind that there is in fact a psychological/environmentally determinative factor to sexuality, but that is not the same as mental illness. No more or less than, "I have a type," is a substantive indicator of mental health.
Can it be part of an unhealthy relationship style? Sure thing.
Is it an indicator of an unhealthy relationship style on its own? Not at all.
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I can and am disagreeing politely. I consider my abnormal sexuality to be apart of my mental illness. As a Catholic, I believe all of man is fallen in one degree or another. And this aspect about me is just a particular way in which I am fallen. Before the American Psychiatric Association took homosexuality out of the DSM, it was considered a mental illness, and really was only removed due to politics. It’s up for grabs whether or not it’s a mental illness. I guess it would just depend on your worldview ultimately. A case can be easily and simply made that the penis is for the vagina and not the anus. In Catholicism, sex must be both unitive and procreative in order for it to not be sinful. So if it’s rape, it’s not unitive, and therefore sinful. And if contraception is being used, it’s not procreative, and therefore sinful.

And really, with respect, you’re pretty much a neo-Pneumatomachi for saying that the entire Church has been wrong on this matter for over nineteen hundred years. My main argument against Protestantism is a faith based one.

I start with the shared assumption that God exists, that the Holy Spirit is God and guides the Church into the fullness of truth. I note that Jesus promised that the gates of hell (heresy) would not prevail against the Church. After that, I point out that Christians are the Church, specifically Trinitarians, as the traditional understanding was that, for example, Arians ceased to be Christian when they denied the divinity of Christ. Basically, certain heresies removes you from the Body of Christ, the Church. Especially after a matter is debated and settled in an ecumenical council. Well Catholics, if Protestants are right, are outside the Church by logical consequence of their beliefs such as transubstantiation, intercession of the saints, veneration and so forth. Well the problem that arises from this logical consequence is that the only Christians to exist for fifteen hundred years were Catholics and Orthodox, who generally agree on just about everything. Of course you had your Gnostics and Arians and others, but Protestants would typically agree they weren’t true Christians. Therefore, unless they can find Protestants before the Reformation, Jesus lied and the Holy Spirit was unable to guide the Church.

With that being said, the entire universal Church, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant, agreed that acting on homosexuality is a sin. And this is a very key moral issue, not just some minor speculation. And Christians only started to disagree with the traditional understanding very recently, after social movements and political correctness arose. I would say, based just on this consideration, that any Bible translating or interpretations that contradict this traditional understanding are really just an attempt to be in line with those movements, to be politically correct. Pleasing man instead of God.
 
I was raised catholic, so I'm immune to being hurt by these sort of words by now. I really don't care what you consider a sin.

As for whether we can "agree to disagree"--well too many of my queer sisters, brothers, and siblings have been harassed, abused, and lynched for me to leave it at that. I didn't ask for folks like you to stay out of this thread to silence you or something, but because we've all heard it before and would rather not have to go through this sillyness again.
 
pandacular said:
I was raised catholic, so I'm immune to being hurt by these sort of words by now. I really don't care what you consider a sin.

As for whether we can "agree to disagree"--well too many of my queer sisters, brothers, and siblings have been harassed, abused, and lynched for me to leave it at that. I didn't ask for folks like you to stay out of this thread to silence you or something, but because we've all heard it before and would rather not have to go through this sillyness again.
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But I’m queer just like you. I said nothing hurtful. I merely have a different worldview considering this matter.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
I can and am disagreeing politely. I consider my abnormal sexuality to be apart of my mental illness. As a Catholic, I believe all of man is fallen in one degree or another. And this aspect about me is just a particular way in which I am fallen. Before the American Psychiatric Association took homosexuality out of the DSM, it was considered a mental illness, and really was only removed due to politics. It’s up for grabs whether or not it’s a mental illness. I guess it would just depend on your worldview ultimately. A case can be easily and simply made that the penis is for the vagina and not the anus. In Catholicism, sex must be both unitive and procreative in order for it to not be sinful. So if it’s rape, it’s not unitive, and therefore sinful. And if contraception is being used, it’s not procreative, and therefore sinful.

And really, with respect, you’re pretty much a neo-Pneumatomachi for saying that the entire Church has been wrong on this matter for over nineteen hundred years. My main argument against Protestantism is a faith based one.

I start with the shared assumption that God exists, that the Holy Spirit is God and guides the Church into the fullness of truth. I note that Jesus promised that the gates of hell (heresy) would not prevail against the Church. After that, I point out that Christians are the Church, specifically Trinitarians, as the traditional understanding was that, for example, Arians ceased to be Christian when they denied the divinity of Christ. Basically, certain heresies removes you from the Body of Christ, the Church. Especially after a matter is debated and settled in an ecumenical council. Well Catholics, if Protestants are right, are outside the Church by logical consequence of their beliefs such as transubstantiation, intercession of the saints, veneration and so forth. Well the problem that arises from this logical consequence is that the only Christians to exist for fifteen hundred years were Catholics and Orthodox, who generally agree on just about everything. Of course you had your Gnostics and Arians and others, but Protestants would typically agree they weren’t true Christians. Therefore, unless they can find Protestants before the Reformation, Jesus lied and the Holy Spirit was unable to guide the Church.

With that being said, the entire universal Church, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant, agreed that acting on homosexuality is a sin. And this is a very key moral issue, not just some minor speculation. And Christians only started to disagree with the traditional understanding very recently, after social movements and political correctness arose. I would say, based just on this consideration, that any Bible translating or interpretations that contradict this traditional understanding are really just an attempt to be in line with those movements, to be politically correct. Pleasing man instead of God.
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Given the majority of your post is addressing purely religious subject matter, do you think this is on the topic for the thread? I'm genuinely sorry you dedicate so much time to the mental gymnastics nessesary to condemn your own nature, I won't bother wasting my own time trying to sway somebody who has tied their schisms so tightly to religious dogma.
 
pandacular said:
I was raised catholic, so I'm immune to being hurt by these sort of words by now. I really don't care what you consider a sin.

As for whether we can "agree to disagree"--well too many of my queer sisters, brothers, and siblings have been harassed, abused, and lynched for me to leave it at that. I didn't ask for folks like you to stay out of this thread to silence you or something, but because we've all heard it before and would rather not have to go through this sillyness again.
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Also, it’s not silliness. It’s a matter of eternal life or death.
KikurageOtomo said:
Given the majority of your post is addressing purely religious subject matter, do you think this is on the topic for the thread? I'm genuinely sorry you dedicate so much time to the mental gymnastics nessesary to condemn your own nature, I won't bother wasting my own time trying to sway somebody who has tied their schisms so tightly to religious dogma.
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You sound like a bigot. It’s interesting you didn’t actually address anything I said. And if religion is banned, so should talk like this.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
But I’m queer just like you. I said nothing hurtful. I merely have a different worldview considering this matter.
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Please, respectfully, take your religious bigotry to another forum.

Plenty of other faith traditions and cultures do not condemn homosexuaiity and some even celebrate it.
 
PerryB said:
Please, respectfully, take your religious bigotry to another forum.

Plenty of other faith traditions and cultures do not condemn homosexuaiity and some even celebrate it.
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It’s not bigotry. You’re the bigot here. Saying something is bigoted just because it doesn’t vibe with your worldview is itself bigoted.
 
pandacular said:
surely you can recognize that this is hurtful?
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I just think it’s bigoted of you to censor me unless I’m being rude. Which I haven’t been. Being a snowflake is a real phenomenon that’s taking over places, especially colleges, and making them centers of hate against Christians and conservative viewpoints.

Honestly, if you’re incapable of a polite and intelligent conversation on these subjects, just stay out of the thread.
 
PerryB said:
Plenty of other faith traditions and cultures do not condemn homosexuaiity and some even celebrate it.
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But those aren't what he believes, so the argument is moot.

And a simple question, looking for a real, honest, personal answer: @Peter.Constantine325 what was your intention posting to this thread if you find the topic at hand counter to your principles?
 
ShadyStump said:
But those aren't what he believes, so the argument is moot.

And a simple question, looking for a real, honest, personal answer: @Peter.Constantine325 what was your intention posting to this thread if you find the topic at hand counter to your principles?
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I’m queer. I have an opinion on the matter. It’s really as simple as that. I shouldn’t be stifled and forced to hide myself because I have an opposing worldview. Let’s just be adults here and have an intelligent conversation.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
I’m queer. I have an opinion on the matter. It’s really as simple as that. I shouldn’t be stifled and forced to hide myself because I have an opposing worldview. Let’s just be adults here and have an intelligent conversation.
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Fair, but what were your hopes in sharing your world view?
 
ShadyStump said:
Fair, but what were your hopes in sharing your world view?
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None, really. It’s a thread for LGBT. I would fall into that category.

Although I suppose part of me in general, anywhere, wants to challenge the fascist tendencies found in leftist circles. Not in the sense that I wanted to start an argument, but in the sense that I should be able to share my opinion in the first place. Without being censored or attacked for having a different lifestyle choice.

I was having a perfectly normal and polite conversation on the matter. Nowhere did I use offensive language. I wasn’t attacking anyone or anything like it.
 
I'll use this analogy, as I feel it applies on all sides:
I tend to avoid smoking at my dad's house. He knows I smoke, and he was raised by smokers so has no great abhorance of it, but he's Mormon. Use of tobacco is against his religion, so it would be rude to rub his face in it, that's all.

@Peter.Constantine325 if you'd like to discuss your views openly, I started a thread called Random Of Doom that's for anything and everything, and getting butthurt over disagreement is not allowed. That's a better place.

Everyone else, remember to think your way through things, but don't believe everything you think.
 
ShadyStump said:
I'll use this analogy, as I feel it applies on all sides:
I tend to avoid smoking at my dad's house. He knows I smoke, and he was raised by smokers so has no great abhorance of it, but he's Mormon. Use of tobacco is against his religion, so it would be rude to rub his face in it, that's all.

@Peter.Constantine325 if you'd like to discuss your views openly, I started a thread called Random Of Doom that's for anything and everything, and getting butthurt over disagreement is not allowed. That's a better place.

Everyone else, remember to think your way through things, but don't believe everything you think.
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Okay. Going there now.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
None, really. It’s a thread for LGBT. I would fall into that category.

Although I suppose part of me in general, anywhere, wants to challenge the fascist tendencies found in leftist circles. Not in the sense that I wanted to start an argument, but in the sense that I should be able to share my opinion in the first place. Without being censored or attacked for having a different lifestyle choice.

I was having a perfectly normal and polite conversation on the matter. Nowhere did I use offensive language. I wasn’t attacking anyone or anything like it.
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Nah dude, your conversation isn't polite at all and a lot of what you are saying is offensive. Just because you hate yourself doesn't mean you get to bring your shame here and put it on us. Please work on accepting yourself. We have already done that work.
 
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