The Hemlock (Tsuga) Discussion THREAD.

[andrewiles]

@River's Edge, when do you typically collect and repot your mountain hemlocks? I'm just across the border and want to go collecting this spring. I can't find any clear info online, other than "when new growth starts". The nursery tree I purchased this winter isn't showing any growth yet here in 8b.

 

[River's Edge]

@River's Edge, when do you typically collect and repot your mountain hemlocks? I'm just across the border and want to go collecting this spring. I can't find any clear info online, other than "when new growth starts". The nursery tree I purchased this winter isn't showing any growth yet here in 8b.

I repot Hemlocks in the spring. I am doing them now. The roots are on the move in my neck of the woods at this time of year.
I collect in the spring and also in the fall. I prefer the spring but will collect in the fall. I have the luxury of a greenhouse for protection after repotting if needed!
The timing for spring collection varies on the collection site. Higher elevations are much later due to snow pack which can mean no collection until end of June some years. Lower elevation sites can be earlier.
I suggest hiking and advance scouting the areas you intend to collect in. Even if it is early for collection you may be able to spot better spots or even specific trees to come back to later on. I use a GPS to mark coordinates to find my way back quickly for those locales or specific trees. The GPS also saves a lot of time on the return trip particularly as I tend to wonder when searching.

 

[River's Edge]

So this is the first time posting this Hemlock. Collected tree, twin trunk with sparser foliage and smaller stature. The initial challenge was to bend the smaller trunk to better unify with the large trunk.# 4 copper wire no guy wires. Result depicted in picture one. Next step was to wire out and position branches for initial design. Copper sizes #12 through #20 .
Please keep in mind that I have retained extra branches and foliage for health and developmental reasons at this point. Also some stubs and jin are being left for anchors or just to deal with at a later date. Re-potting season beckons. As the tree strengthens and foliage fills out more reduction will take place. The tree will now return to the bench for the growing season. Raffia will be removed as soon as time allows, it's job is done with bending complete and the bark will stay healthier if the raffia is removed. Wire will stay on until it begins to cut in and then be replaced and offset to hold position but not damage the trunks or branches. With Mountain Hemlock the wiring process is fairly continuous for the first four or five years. The amount required reduces over time as thicker portions set in place. This is by no means fully wired, but the direction I intend for design should be apparent.

 

[andrewiles]

I tried potting up my first mountain hemlock today. It was purchased this winter from a local nursery and was hanging out in a burlap sack.

I was afraid to prune too many roots or branches, so I left about 2/3rds of the root ball undisturbed. Used a mix of lava, pumice and pine bark for the new soil and placed in an Andersen flat. I tried to wire a few branches down. Also wanted to see if I could bend a straight section near the top with a branch bender I found online.

I don't know what to do with it yet, but I liked the base and lower curves in the trunk. If it's healthy this summer perhaps I'll remove the upper quarter next spring and begin shortening the branches.

 

[ghues]

Hi Graham
Sorry for the crude black out strokes! Checking out a different version with reduced foliage
It is missing a variety of running shoes hanging on jin.
If foliage were reduced, I suspect some interesting jin could be retained for additional interest. Hard to see with the foliage.
I do like a front that shows the natural shari even if it retreats a bit from the viewer.

Thanks Frank, need a miniature pair then....or a Bald Eagle perhaps . I like to remove whole branches over time, or just debark them ( to reflect what happens naturally over time as the tree ages) so the tree can recover......a slower process as I’ve learned the hard way in removing too many at one time.....something you do to I’m sure.
Cheers

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks Frank, need a miniature pair then....or a Bald Eagle perhaps . I like to remove whole branches over time, or just debark them ( to reflect what happens naturally over time as the tree ages) so the tree can recover......a slower process as I’ve learned the hard way in removing too many at one time.....something you do to I’m sure.
Cheers

Nope, I vote turkey vultures for sure in keeping with age and decay over time. Re-potting season makes me think of age and decay.

 

[Bmcghan22]

So I have 10 acres and these are everywhere on the property. Has anyone had any luck air layering these or can it not be done? I’ve heard conifers taking a few years but since it’s a family property time isn’t a concern. A few have been roughed up by deer and elk and there is a few I wouldn’t mind working on.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

So I have 10 acres and these are everywhere on the property. Has anyone had any luck air layering these or can it not be done? I’ve heard conifers taking a few years but since it’s a family property time isn’t a concern. A few have been roughed up by deer and elk and there is a few I wouldn’t mind working on.

I am going on year two of attempting an air layer on the Eastern variety, or “species” I should say.. Canadensis. No luck yet but I’ll keep trying this growing season at least. I did take a largish branch off of, ironically, the air-layer attempt, over the winter, and I stuck that into the ground after whittle-ing off the bark in to a targeted future nebari. The leaves still look healthy several months later, but it could just look like it is hanging in without actually creating roots.

 

[Bmcghan22]

I am going on year two of attempting an air layer on the Eastern variety, or “species” I should say.. Canadensis. No luck yet but I’ll keep trying this growing season at least. I did take a largish branch off of, ironically, the air-layer attempt, over the winter, and I stuck that into the ground after whittle-ing off the bark in to a targeted future nebari. The leaves still look healthy several months later, but it could just look like it is hanging in without actually creating roots.

I’m still learning but there is one western hemlock that caught my eye and instead of just chopping it I’d like to save the top half to and try to layer it. I was planning on taking the sphag moss way and just leave it until it roots. I just don’t know how to identify it’s not working to justify just chopping it

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I don’t know for sure if it will work or if it will take a year or three to work, but theee is a way to know if it didn’t work, and that is if the top dies.. a perhaps more useful suggestion is to wrap the moss with clear plastic, like a sliced bread bag, poke some holes in bottom so it can drain, and allow some space for water to get in when it rains. Then wrap the whole mess in foil to keep the light out. Periodically you can pull back the foil to see if new roots have developed. If no roots check to see that the layer hasn’t bridged. At least with my Eastern, it had plenty of callousing power to bridge.

 

[Bmcghan22]

I don’t know for sure if it will work or if it will take a year or three to work, but theee is a way to know if it didn’t work, and that is if the top dies.. a perhaps more useful suggestion is to wrap the moss with clear plastic, like a sliced bread bag, poke some holes in bottom so it can drain, and allow some space for water to get in when it rains. Then wrap the whole mess in foil to keep the light out. Periodically you can pull back the foil to see if new roots have developed. If no roots check to see that the layer hasn’t bridged. At least with my Eastern, it had plenty of callousing power to bridge.

Right on thanks for the advise

 

[Japonicus]

I think it's time to pot these up. Just began moving maybe a week ago.
The smaller dwarf (Jeddeloh) soil is more like dirt when damp, but more like nursery soil when dry.
Is bare rooting a possibility here, should I pot like a juniper, or leave both alone for a while
in the cans they're in? The yellow tip one is a canadensis Golden Splendor grafted.

 

[River's Edge]

I think it's time to pot these up. Just began moving maybe a week ago.
The smaller dwarf (Jeddeloh) soil is more like dirt when damp, but more like nursery soil when dry.
Is bare rooting a possibility here, should I pot like a juniper, or leave both alone for a while
in the cans they're in? The yellow tip one is a canadensis Golden Splendor grafted.

Sorry, I have no experience with nursery Hemlock, or commercially propagated cultivars. I would expect some aspects to carry over though! I would not bare root as most Hemlock are a more temperamental root system to deal with. Actually I do not bare root conifers as a rule unless there is no choice and a lot of rotten roots must be removed.
I would advise teasing out the soil you wish to change in some sections but no more than 1/2 the root ball at a time. Safest is to pick the weakest areas in root growth first, leaving the stronger sections to help recovery the first time around. After recovery you can safely work on the remaining sections the next time.
This of course is dependant on what you find, if the root balls are strong and well developed then you could modify the work you do to be a bit more aggressive. Keeping in mind that it never hursts to take your time ing Bonsai, unless you are dealing with disease or insects.

 

[Japonicus]

Sorry, I have no experience with nursery Hemlock, or commercially propagated cultivars. I would expect some aspects to carry over though! I would not bare root as most Hemlock are a more temperamental root system to deal with. Actually I do not bare root conifers as a rule unless there is no choice and a lot of rotten roots must be removed.
I would advise teasing out the soil you wish to change in some sections but no more than 1/2 the root ball at a time. Safest is to pick the weakest areas in root growth first, leaving the stronger sections to help recovery the first time around. After recovery you can safely work on the remaining sections the next time.
This of course is dependant on what you find, if the root balls are strong and well developed then you could modify the work you do to be a bit more aggressive. Keeping in mind that it never hursts to take your time ing Bonsai, unless you are dealing with disease or insects.

Thanks Frank! 50% is closer to what I had imagined. My cue, on bare rooting stems from another thread
potting up canadensis. I was of the impression they were root sensitive as well.
I lost 2 dwarfs last year I slipped into the ground no root work, just slipped.
They were fine in the nursery cans they were in, then crashed.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks Frank! 50% is closer to what I had imagined. My cue, on bare rooting stems from another thread
potting up canadensis. I was of the impression they were root sensitive as well.
I lost 2 dwarfs last year I slipped into the ground no root work, just slipped.
They were fine in the nursery cans they were in, then crashed.

Slip potting or transplanting is tricky. The core soil is not disturbed and the roots have less of a tendency to explore the new substrate. Often a failure or major set back to the plant. The moisture levels are uneven between the core and the surrounding soil, creates an unhealthy situation.

 

[Japonicus]

Slip potting or transplanting is tricky. The core soil is not disturbed and the roots have less of a tendency to explore the new substrate. Often a failure or major set back to the plant. The moisture levels are uneven between the core and the surrounding soil, creates an unhealthy situation.

I actually in theory, have more of an issue disturbing 50% of the roots and
dropping the remainder into a grow container surrounded by much more porous "soil"
than tilling the ground up where I used to heal my pots in over Winter (workable area)
and pressing a plug of roots in. I put them in the ground because they were ultra dwarfs.

Got these 2 potted up today finally just ahead of a rainy segmented week.



What do you know about disease on hemlock? I'm seeing tip blight on a couple junipers and treating the pines for needle cast.
Again this is a Golden Splendor, so the yellow is A OK.

 

[ABCarve]

Thanks Frank! 50% is closer to what I had imagined. My cue, on bare rooting stems from another thread
potting up canadensis. I was of the impression they were root sensitive as well.
I lost 2 dwarfs last year I slipped into the ground no root work, just slipped.
They were fine in the nursery cans they were in, then crashed.

I’m not advising you to do this but.......take a look at post 24-28. The younger the tree the more tolerant they are to abuse. Aftercare is the key. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/small-eastern-hemlock-development.22756/post-345542

 

[River's Edge]

What do you know about disease on hemlock? I'm seeing tip blight on a couple junipers and treating the pines for needle cast.

Most types of hemlock can be affected by certain rust fungi. This is the typical cause of needle discolouration. Some articles suggest an association with blueberry and huckleberry rust in the vicinity!
For my Mountain Hemlock I use a preventative Lime Sulphur spray in fall and winter, a copper spray in the early spring. The product I use is called Liqui-Cop. Here is a photo of some of the fungicides I keep on hand.

 

[Japonicus]

I’m not advising you to do this but.......take a look at post 24-28. The younger the tree the more tolerant they are to abuse. Aftercare is the key. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/small-eastern-hemlock-development.22756/post-345542

I remember that thread
I now remember the 2 ultra dwarfs that crashed on me when I put them in ground
were eBay purchase arrived in Saran Wrap like packaging, no pot, so that maybe was the issue
not my slipping the into the ground, thanks

Most types of hemlock can be affected by certain rust fungi. This is the typical cause of needle discolouration. Some articles suggest an association with blueberry and huckleberry rust in the vicinity!
For my Mountain Hemlock I use a preventative Lime Sulphur spray in fall and winter, a copper spray in the early spring. The product I use is called Liqui-Cop. Here is a photo of some of the fungicides I keep on hand.

Thanks Frank! I can do the Daconil, have used it already as well as copper spray, and Mancozeb on the way.

No such associated trees or shrubs I’m aware of, but received a Japanese Cedar last Fall which started showing same
signs, rusty looking needles at the tips though.

As for potting up tsuga, are there any symbiotic fungi as with pines
that would cause me to not use anti fungal granules in the soil while waiting for recovery, or good to go?

 

[River's Edge]

I remember that thread
I now remember the 2 ultra dwarfs that crashed on me when I put them in ground
were eBay purchase arrived in Saran Wrap like packaging, no pot, so that maybe was the issue
not my slipping the into the ground, thanks

Thanks Frank! I can do the Daconil, have used it already as well as copper spray, and Mancozeb on the way.

No such associated trees or shrubs I’m aware of, but received a Japanese Cedar last Fall which started showing same
signs, rusty looking needles at the tips though.

As for potting up tsuga, are there any symbiotic fungi as with pines
that would cause me to not use anti fungal granules in the soil while waiting for recovery, or good to go?

Not that I am aware of. Would have to leave that discussion to more scientific types. I have used systemic fungal granules on a wide variety of trees with no observed problems or side effects that I am aware of.