Testing an idea ------- saucers as pots - or how shallow can you go

[Anthony]

My brother-in -law, just left this on another forum.
Wanted to share.

We can get UV resistant plant saucers up to 2 feet wide and 3 inches deep.

So the experiment - place seedling in centre and see how it responds root
wise.
Also roughly the equal of a 16 x 5 inch pot as a 24 x 3 inch saucer.
So why not see if one can get the same results with a pine.

Images- Fustic and Tamarind.
Enjoy
Anthony

There are presently in nature 5 types of Fustics [ Chlorophora t. ]



Tamarind -how to control a taproot
Pot is cooking dish



And out of dish - 10 leaves or so removed so you can see

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I am reporting good JRP feeder roots development in seedlings in trays 1cm deep. Is that 1/3rd inch?
They stay pretty small when sown in that tray (5 cm/year in year 1, then 2 cm/year).


Testing right now for jbp, scots pine and others. They seem to respond the same way. The taproot just converges to feeder roots in a single year.

It just takes a lot of time to keep it watered.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Three 1 year old JRP, and a 1 year old larch this spring, in a 1cm deep tray. They have no tap roots, only feeders.
This soil hasn't been changed in 3 years. It's all potting soil, crushed lava rocks (1-3mm) and regular builders sand. This year I added a new top layer because some of the stuff has washed out.
See the bricks on the side for size reference. They don't get as big as in regular pots. However, after repotting them into something bigger, they all responded with huge needles.
The ones that stayed in this tray, did not change size and they grew a lot slower. They're 1-2 months behind compared to the rest.

 

[0soyoung]

View attachment 202164
Three 1 year old JRP, and a 1 year old larch this spring, in a 1cm deep tray. They have no tap roots, only feeders.
This soil hasn't been changed in 3 years. It's all potting soil, crushed lava rocks (1-3mm) and regular builders sand. This year I added a new top layer because some of the stuff has washed out.
See the bricks on the side for size reference. They don't get as big as in regular pots. However, after repotting them into something bigger, they all responded with huge needles.
The ones that stayed in this tray, did not change size and they grew a lot slower. They're 1-2 months behind compared to the rest.

Do you suppose this might be because of how a thin top layer of substrate is well aerated and the rest is essentially saturated with water? I mean, like the tap roots get 'water pruned'?

 

[my nellie]

... ...We can get UV resistant plant saucers up to 2 feet wide and 3 inches deep.
So the experiment - place seedling in centre and see how it responds root wise.
Also roughly the equal of a 16 x 5 inch pot as a 24 x 3 inch saucer.
So why not see if one can get the same results with a pine.

Hello Anthony,

How long are these seedlings growing into the saucers?
Have you drilled any holes to the bottom?
Thank you!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Do you suppose this might be because of how a thin top layer of substrate is well aerated and the rest is essentially saturated with water? I mean, like the tap roots get 'water pruned'?

The tray dries out in less than a day during summer. So there could be some water pruning in fall when it rains for multiple weeks on end sometimes. But then again, it doesn't hold much water. The lava rock is pretty airy, and it doesn't seem to stack up causing suffocation of the roots. So, it could be water pruning, but that's unlikely the only thing that's happening. There were no signs of over watering, no yellowing, no weird growth. So I'm guessing they did not experience water issues.

But I have this hunch, that pines respond like any other plant in a shallow container, by converging the tap root into finer roots. Either by killing it off, or just changing the structure. There's no use for that tap root, and anchoring works better in shallow trays through production of multiple finer roots.
It's the same procedure as in pond baskets. Or maybe closer to aeroponics or hydroponics.
In the seedling stage, that conversion is a lot easier to achieve for the plant than in later stages.

I'm testing it now with jbp and scots pine in a little less shallow tray (2, and 3-4cm) with akadama and a coarser inorganic substrate. Even by buring them until the first set of leaves. To see if the trunk does the same. That way I could skip cutting them and skip failing miserably. I'm guessing I can post some preliminary results in september or so. Knowing plants, I'm almost certain this will work. They're pretty plastic at this young stage.

I had some jack pine and other plants in a 2cm tray, but after a month or so they all still had their tap root. I did report that instead of extending from the tip, it was heavily branching higher up. It seems to take a while for that tap root to "realize" it has no place to go.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

My brother-in -law, just left this on another forum.
Wanted to share.

We can get UV resistant plant saucers up to 2 feet wide and 3 inches deep.

So the experiment - place seedling in centre and see how it responds root
wise.
Also roughly the equal of a 16 x 5 inch pot as a 24 x 3 inch saucer.
So why not see if one can get the same results with a pine.

Images- Fustic and Tamarind.
Enjoy
Anthony

There are presently in nature 5 types of Fustics [ Chlorophora t. ]

View attachment 202131

Tamarind -how to control a taproot
Pot is cooking dish

View attachment 202132

And out of dish - 10 leaves or so removed so you can see

View attachment 202133

Hi Anthony,
Interesting thread. I thought I might buy some ceramic saucers, drill a hole in the middle, and trial use for some of my Maples. Though I haven’t seen any saucers which are 3 inch deep.
Charles

 

[Anthony]

Hello Charles,

you can get ceramic baking trays as well. See suppliers
of baking wares, then locate at non specialty stores,
for a lower price.

Think roasting meat dishes.

Hello Αλεξάνδρα,

there are several holes in the ceramic dish and many in the
plastic saucer. The plastic saucer is from a set.

http://www.islandplanters.com/round2

When next you visit Trinidad, you can stay at the beach house
and look at these planters in use.

The tamarind was just a seedling left over in a styro foan cup.
and transferred to the ceramic dish.
The year before the soil mix was 3 mm, this year laziness
set in and soil mix reverted to 5 mm.
About 3 years in the ceramic dish.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[my nellie]

... ...The tamarind was just a seedling left over in a styro foan cup.
and transferred to the ceramic dish... ...

And you didn't cut the tap root I assume at the time of transplant?

 

[Anthony]

@my nellie ,

Morning Αλεξάνδρα,

no, didn't have to, the soil mix we use -seems- to discourage
the formation of a tap root.

The root mass was cut straight across. Leaving most of
the soil mix behind. The plant responded very well to both
the shallow dish and the 3 mm soil mix.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Anthony]

BIG OR,

this could have been one of the tamarinds, treated like the J.B.pines
and as cotyledon and two leaves, been cut for lower branching.
We use this technique to get lower branching.

Don't want to mislead.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[my nellie]

@Anthony thank you for the clarifications.