Solange
Shohin
And nice willow leaf! I liked the post you did on it. Also, I think you found the name for your advanced group - team shohin!
Team shohin display
- Thread starter markyscott
- Start date
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Sorry if I am being difficult, but I still don't see a problem with letting a small tree stand alone? Again, as I stated, maybe it's just me. I get the traditional thinking about this but it still seems compensatory to me.
There is absolutely nothing preventing you from doing so - give it a go. I'd be very curious to hear how you feel it went.
Scott
Solange, think of the practical aspects of setting up a display. How much table space would you give to a single shohin? 3 feet? Four? One?
And then, it sits on its little stand. What do you see? The top of the tree. A birds eye view. Is that the best view?
And, if you give it just a foot of space squeezed between two bigger trees, would you even see it?
By using the box stand, it elevates the trees so they can be viewed better.
And then there's the whole symbolism thing about the box stand representing the mountain, with the conifer on top, trees with movement in the middle as they would be halfway up the mountain, and the bottom shelf having trees that would be growing in the valley. If you use an "off box" tree, if it's elevated, it shows the tree on the neighboring mountain, on the other side of the valley. If you choose a low tree, it should be one representative of what's growing on the plains next to the mountain.
For my display, there's the JBP on top. The King of bonsai. A root over rock trident, and a Hinoki cypress in the middle, and an olive and a Zelkova on bottom. On the right is a JRP. The accent is a frog in a little pond in the valley!
The "story" is very traditional. The two yellow pots is the "wild side"!
And then, it sits on its little stand. What do you see? The top of the tree. A birds eye view. Is that the best view?
And, if you give it just a foot of space squeezed between two bigger trees, would you even see it?
By using the box stand, it elevates the trees so they can be viewed better.
And then there's the whole symbolism thing about the box stand representing the mountain, with the conifer on top, trees with movement in the middle as they would be halfway up the mountain, and the bottom shelf having trees that would be growing in the valley. If you use an "off box" tree, if it's elevated, it shows the tree on the neighboring mountain, on the other side of the valley. If you choose a low tree, it should be one representative of what's growing on the plains next to the mountain.
For my display, there's the JBP on top. The King of bonsai. A root over rock trident, and a Hinoki cypress in the middle, and an olive and a Zelkova on bottom. On the right is a JRP. The accent is a frog in a little pond in the valley!
The "story" is very traditional. The two yellow pots is the "wild side"!
Solange
Shohin
Adair - I appreciate your attempts to explain as I assume they are well meaning, and I really do enjoy your display. I am aware of the popular reasoning behind shohin display. Just because I question the standard does not mean I'm ignorant. However you are explaining this in the comparative, compensatory way that my inquiry is questioning, and ignoring pretty much every word I've written here. You don't need to defend the display norms, I'm not attacking them. I think Scott gave some great advice. I can simply display the way I like and decide for myself why it does or does not work for me.
Great! Scott always gives good advice!
I was just explaining a bit about shohin display because there are many who don't know anything about it.
My answer to why all the shohin display norms is a shohin sitting next to a regular sized or large bonsai gets overlooked. So they figured out a way to make shohin "bigger" visually.
There was a thread that discussed how a shohin would never get chosen for "Best in Show", because their diminutive stature is just not as "impressive" as the larger trees. Since there is less of everything on a shohin, a single shohin just can't compete.
Just like any Major League Baseball team would trounce even the best Little League baseball team. They're just bigger, stronger, faster, etc.
There are shohin only shows in Japan where the shohin are shown more like regular bonsai. Since there are no big trees to steal the limelight, they can stand on their own more effectively.
I was just explaining a bit about shohin display because there are many who don't know anything about it.
My answer to why all the shohin display norms is a shohin sitting next to a regular sized or large bonsai gets overlooked. So they figured out a way to make shohin "bigger" visually.
There was a thread that discussed how a shohin would never get chosen for "Best in Show", because their diminutive stature is just not as "impressive" as the larger trees. Since there is less of everything on a shohin, a single shohin just can't compete.
Just like any Major League Baseball team would trounce even the best Little League baseball team. They're just bigger, stronger, faster, etc.
There are shohin only shows in Japan where the shohin are shown more like regular bonsai. Since there are no big trees to steal the limelight, they can stand on their own more effectively.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
I LOVE THIS!
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
There's an important follow up question that I'm suprised no one asked. If a Texas shohin is shorter than a shiner, how many shiners does it take to create a shohin display? That question, my friends, will be answered later today...
Scott
Scott
Solange
Shohin
What's interesting is that I find shohin magnitudes more interesting than a larger tree, and often pass right by large trees to look specifically at what I find the most powerful and impressive.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
I like trees. Big, small, and in-between.
I think for most people they compete for attention when placed with larger trees, but I like shohin trees a lot as well so perhaps exceptions are more common than I think.
I will say that, as an observer, I've seen a great variety of shohin display - not just large multi-tree stands - including 3-point display with shohin trees. One of the things I like about them are the variety of creative displays with smaller groupings. Here are some other examples of shohin 3 point display.
But in the case of my exhibit, we're definitely going with a traditional multi-tree stand. Part of the motivation here is to collaborate with my friends - this gives me a way to do that.
Scott
Solange
Shohin
Definitely looking forward to seeing your display Scott sorry for hijacking your thread with philosophy!
sorry for hijacking your thread with philosophy!
RickMartin
Omono
I am seeing exactly what Adair is trying to say. If you put a shohin between 2 larger trees, it will get lost visually every time. I'm getting more into shohin because I'm getting older and big trees are getting harder to tote around. But everyone has their opinion, if you want to try it, go for it.
Rick
Rick
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Definitely looking forward to seeing your display Scott
A warning - the quality of my posts may decrease depending on the answer to my question above...
And I don't consider a discussion about Shohin display as hijacking a thread about Shohin display. If, on the other hand, you wanted to debate the merits of turface vs akadama - that would be hijacking.
Scott
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
me too, and those displays you posted are also wonderful. I love to study great displays such as these. I've been working on getting a stable of shohin, enough to do a good display with. I didn't pay enough attention to direction when choosing trees, and have too many maple ones to use together ( didn't understand that having same specie in display even if they are different cultivars is an error). So now am thinking of doing smaller displays with them. Great topic!
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Of course HBS IS having its fall show too - that's November 12th at Mecer Arboretum. What I meant to say was that I was prepping for the State Convention - the Fall Show is next.
Scott
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
The "species rule" is one for which I've seen nearly universal compliance. I've seen a few club Shohin displays which have repeated trees of the same species and it stood out right away and always came out in critique. But that's one rule that seems to really be a rule. What do you you all think?
Scott
Here's a little display I did at the Atlanta show back in March:
So, yes, there's all kinds of ways to show them.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
So we had a bit of a problem with the Shiner experiment. At the workshop, only Dos Equis were available. And a couple of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale's. As it turns out, Dos Equis are a very similar height to Shiner, so we figured it would be an acceptable substitute for our Shohin display workshop. The answer to the question that I'm sure has been burning is:
Eleven. Stay thirsty my friends.
Scott
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
I have to say - this was one of the most interesting times I've had with the study group. Generally, we bring in trees and work on them together, or we pitch in and pay for a guest artist to join us. But on this occasion we were doing something collaborative. We each brought in trees with which we could build s Shohin display and stands, scrolls, companion plants, etc. And combined our work into a single display - very fun, but it also highlighted some weaknesses in our collection. Here's what we came up with together (and be merciful - it's our first Shohin display and most of the trees have not been display prepped yet):
Looking at it now, I think that the little azalea could benefit from a stand and we're clearly lacking a black pine, but what do you think? Not to bad of a ratio - 7 trees and eleven beers. Pretty dang efficient if you ask me.
Scott
Looking at it now, I think that the little azalea could benefit from a stand and we're clearly lacking a black pine, but what do you think? Not to bad of a ratio - 7 trees and eleven beers. Pretty dang efficient if you ask me.
Scott
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Top tree shouldn't be a cascade, and not on such a high stand. If the cascade were more "formal" with the apex over the root ball, it could squeak by. It also is not a regal enough tree to be there. A juniper is ok but it has to be tremendous and rugged.
Both the bottom trees have a trunk that emerges from the soil left with a first branch on each on the left. The tree on the right is Ok but the left tree needs to be reversed in direction.
I'm not to keen on Suiseki on box stands since the stand is supposed to represent the mountain and the stone is redundant. Maybe use the stone by itself as an accent to the whole stand, which I feel is still redundant.
The stand under the accent tree on the right is huge and too large and clunky to best represent the delicate nature of shohin, also the legs on the box stand are large and obtrusive.
Both the bottom trees have a trunk that emerges from the soil left with a first branch on each on the left. The tree on the right is Ok but the left tree needs to be reversed in direction.
I'm not to keen on Suiseki on box stands since the stand is supposed to represent the mountain and the stone is redundant. Maybe use the stone by itself as an accent to the whole stand, which I feel is still redundant.
The stand under the accent tree on the right is huge and too large and clunky to best represent the delicate nature of shohin, also the legs on the box stand are large and obtrusive.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks Al - that's good feedback . We had a fair amount of debate on the Suiseki. I agree that the top tree is weak and we may have a replacement for it. Unfortunately, not a pine - I was surprised that between all of us we couldn't come up with a pine tree. But I'm curious and in the spirit of learning - on what is the objection to having a cascade as the top tree based?
Scott
