Teach me how to Fish. Azalea

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

I bought this Nursery stock Pink Pearl about a month ago ($42), and I'm planning on watching it flower this season and then chopping it down to pre-bonsai town.

Pics worth more words than I feel like typing.



Says zone 7 but I've also seen these mentioned as zone 5 hardy. Are there different types of Pink Pearl?



This is what I'm working(killing) with


Use the tag for perspective, Or I can take more photos




I've been reading the 2025 Azalea contest thread the last few days, and despite that I'm still looking for styling and species advice. And @Deep Sea Diver and quite a few others in those threads seem very knowledgeable.
My thoughts are chop the branch on the right & prune the rest down. Lots of questions on the best fert, soil, morning sun or afternoon sun, bigger pot or inground for awhile. I've been two stepping this outside when it's above 32F and no ice storms. Mainly just mimicking the nursery instructions. It's in the attached garage when not outside.

Enough of my questions. I'll listen for now.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

At first glance have a good start of a main branch front and center… the one that curves right and then left. But that’s only one side on a 2D image…. and would leave a bit of the branch off to the right.

Instead of going into too much design detail, let’s describe the process I use. That Is way better information then choosing a design right now.

My MO with nursery stock. is to start off taking my time, choosing what not to keep.
Be sure the tree is healthy before doing any work
For nursery stock.
1. Reduce cartwheels throughout the entire tree to the trunk, Reduce, but leave green on each remaining branch. Leave 1/4” beyond the green.
2. Cut each full reduction flush to the truck/junction and slightly convex. Seal all cuts with Top Gin. For large cuts >1\8” cut paste w/green top when Top Gin dries.
3. Stop and check what options you have for a design. Think through the different styles, upright in this case. Sometimes a simple clump is the very best option. In this case look on YouTube for @JohnG’s azalea clump videos and follow his instructions.
= I almost never do a cut back without leaving some green on a stem for young nursery stock. (Yard Yamadori is a different story.). It’s normally bad practice and often results in a weak or dead azalea. You may disagree, people do, that’s ok with me. I’ve worked over 120 nursery azaleas in the past four years. Lost 2 as a rookie when I did a severe cutback. I’ve lost more due to rootwash experimenting!
4. After the first cutback wait and let the tree grow out. If there is lots of green up a trunk you wish to reduce, it’s possible to cutback leaving 1-2 buds up to mid June. After that let the tree regain strength for the rest of the year.
5. Protect during the winter >33F.
6. Late winter (in Puget Sound) in the next year rootwash and repot (90/10 kanuma/pumice). Use whatever media you think is best for your area. I won’t discuss media variations. Your tree your choice.
7. Remove all flower buds when they begin to show color. Assess the tree’s strength.
8. Do final reductions in the late (second) winter and seal properly. Grow out to design for the next year.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shibui]

All great advice from @Deep Sea Diver
As mentioned different ideas from different growers in different places. I certainly have no problem chopping azaleas, young or old, down to bare stumps in order to get rid of long, thin shoots but that may be related to local conditions or maybe varieties?

 

[Glaucus]

You are best off immediately dealing with any reverse taper. You can always keep a 2 or 3 flower buds on the plant. If you wait until after it flowered, it will have done some more growing. Which means the reverse taper got moderately worse.
Additionally, the backbudding on kurume is less strong later in the growing season.

This variety will not bud back on old wood spontaneously, like many satsuki would. Hence it is bald there. Therefore, you need to chop or hard prune to induce badbudding.
Additionally, several branches can not be allowed to thicken further.
Which ones kinda depend on your final design.
Which also depends on how many years of growing you want to invest before putting it in a training pot.

I think with this one, I would go for a single trunk. Then field grow it until it has recovered from/scarred over removing that large branch on the right. Possible develop some actual taper, depending on how it buds back. It could definite bud on that narrow part of the trunk just above the soil line/nebari, before it widens. That would be ideal. But it is also not a given. Or, it might take a second hard prune.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

All great advice from @Deep Sea Diver
As mentioned different ideas from different growers in different places. I certainly have no problem chopping azaleas, young or old, down to bare stumps in order to get rid of long, thin shoots but that may be related to local conditions or maybe varieties?

Excellent thoughts! You do a great job working azaleas @Shibui . You are right, poor health after cutback may be partially related to cultivar. Yet I haven’t found one that doesn’t respond to proper treatment. I’ve tried lots. It’s a bit mystifying. Frankly after testing a lot I think your really good technique and excellent proper aftercare shows in your results.

I now feel it’s more likely a combination of poor timing/spacing of major cutbacks/rootwork, poor technique, health issues, maybe media choice and most of all, improper after care. I could be off base of course.

Satsukis are the gold standard, of course, on backbudding. We have well north of 100 cultivars and many hybrids and haven’t found one that can’t be made to backbud on old wood, with proper technique, Kurumes included.

imho most all azaleas would rather bud near the tips if field trained. That’s why we cut back and thin heavily to let light get to the old wood. I was just rereading this about 40 year old article by a Japanese master who was saying Kurumes backbud really well.

I’ve a couple dozen Kurume and hybrid cultivars I’ve been experimenting on In the past couple years. So far each has reacted as expected of a satsuki. Some not as profusely, Yet even different satsuki don‘t backbud the as profusely as others.

As always, these thoughts bring forth a whole bunch of ideas for experiments my better half will most likely not want to have taking up space in our ever shrinking back yard!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

You are best off immediately dealing with any reverse taper. You can always keep a 2 or 3 flower buds on the plant. If you wait until after it flowered, it will have done some more growing. Which means the reverse taper got moderately worse.
Additionally, the backbudding on kurume is less strong later in the growing season.

@Glaucus brings up a really good point, getting to work as soon as possible will give the tree that much longer to recover and grow out. When I was first working with azaleas I always wanted to see see all the flowers in their glory. No more, Leave a couple and cut.

Reverse taper isnt a# much of a downer as with a maple, but your design should find a way to include it.

First half dozen azaleas are all learner trees anyways. So keep this in mind…. and get somemore!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Glaucus]

The strongly Rhododendron indicum-influenced varieties will backbud without pruning most strongly; Korin, Kinsai, Osakazuki, Kozan, Nikko, Yata no Kagami, etc.
Varieties like Kaho bud back a bit less.
On larger satsuki bonsai, all these sucker shoots can actually cause scars if not removed in time. It causes a swelling and can give a gnarly tumor-like surface on the trunk, rather than the usual smooth bark.
And these areas swollen areas will just bud back more and more.
Examples here:

Rhododendron indicum, 66 cm, ± 30 years old, trained by Kobayashi Sanyo

Japanese azalea (Chiyonishiki) | 660 x 550 x 340 mm | Origin: Japan | Trained by Kobayashi Sanyo

www.bonsaiplaza.com

It could actually be that this is a mechanism that can be managed; if you allow backbudding, you will get more in the future. But if you keep removing it immedaitely, maybe the bark will actually become barren and not able to produce backbudding shoots. This is kinda laso a think with suckers on the base of the trunk of deciduous trees.

The kurume in the OP will just never spontaneously backbud. Indeed, some kurume can bud back when very healthy and vigorous. But many always keep their base branches bald.
A Rhododendron indicum type variety will always try to bud back on unshaded base of the trunk. But it may stop trying once a bald part of the trunk has aged.

If your variety does not bud back naturally, then when you prune hard to induce backbudding, not doing a chop may result in all backbudding occurring near the cut site. Not on the very base of the trunk, where you may want it.
But this can vary based on cultivar, age, state of the bark where budding could occur, health, individual plant, and maybe climate.
Any azalea that is not in top health and only growing slowly generally won't bud back spontaneously.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yes.

Here’s my take on what @Glaucus is referring to. A lot has to do on how “young and vigorous” one can keep the xylem/phloen pathways of azalea branches. This means systematically cutting back into the old wood to keep a branch vigorous. The older a branch gets the more constricted these pathways become, making the branch weak and only growth will occur on the ends of the branches. This occurs on all azaleas, including satsuki.

It’s my opinion certain azalea, esp many Kurumes and hybrids, the inner part of branches get “old“ quickly. Especially nursery azaleas where they are in optimized growth regimes and sheared but not properly back pruned to bring these to trees to market quickly.

Its just an idea of mine, not gospel.

When you do the cut back you can test each method to see which works best on this tree. As long as you don’t try to rootwash and hard prune all at once the tree will likely respond favorably to each method. Just keep some green on the tree when you do to keep the sap drawing in the branches you want to keep.

Aftercare

Keep in light shade and avoid freezing for a month. Then morning sun, afternoon dappled shade.

Imho the next hazards the tree will face after pruning will be overwatering, as it won’t need as much water due to reduced photosynthetic area. This leads to root rot.…. And then over fertilization. avoid any fertilizing until the tree responds vigorously, about 6-8 weeks in our area, then start with a weak liquid fertilizer like fish emulsion. Azaleas don’t like a lot of fertilizer and its roots “burn” easily when over fertilized.

Good Luck!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

All great advice from @Deep Sea Diver
As mentioned different ideas from different growers in different places. I certainly have no problem chopping azaleas, young or old, down to bare stumps in order to get rid of long, thin shoots but that may be related to local conditions or maybe varieties?

At first glance have a good start of a main branch front and center… the one that curves right and then left. But that’s only one side on a 2D image…. and would leave a bit of the branch off to the right.

Instead of going into too much design detail, let’s describe the process I use. That Is way better information then choosing a design right now.

My MO with nursery stock. is to start off taking my time, choosing what not to keep.
Be sure the tree is healthy before doing any work
For nursery stock.
1. Reduce cartwheels throughout the entire tree to the trunk, Reduce, but leave green on each remaining branch. Leave 1/4” beyond the green.
2. Cut each full reduction flush to the truck/junction and slightly convex. Seal all cuts with Top Gin. For large cuts >1\8” cut paste w/green top when Top Gin dries.

You are best off immediately dealing with any reverse taper. You can always keep a 2 or 3 flower buds on the plant. If you wait until after it flowered, it will have done some more growing. Which means the reverse taper got moderately worse.
Additionally, the backbudding on kurume is less strong later in the growing season.
.

Thanks for the replies I'm going to re-read this thread when I get home from work tonight. And I'll probably have a bunch of noob questions.

 

[JudyB]

The only thing I would add to all this great advice is to think about the tree in a different way than you would a normal deciduous tree in the planning for future shape. Think of it more as a platform for the flowers if you understand my meaning. Not to say that you shouldn't adhere to the normal tropes of no reverse taper, and so forth. But to rethink the branch forms, to show off the flowering in the best way, and to make sure that all "pads" are able to get adequate light into the interior so it can flower across the entire branch pad, and be strong for cutbacks and backbudding.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

At first glance have a good start of a main branch front and center… the one that curves right and then left. But that’s only one side on a 2D image…. and would leave a bit of the branch off to the right.

Instead of going into too much design detail, let’s describe the process I use. That Is way better information then choosing a design right now.

My MO with nursery stock. is to start off taking my time, choosing what not to keep.
Be sure the tree is healthy before doing any work
For nursery stock.
1. Reduce cartwheels throughout the entire tree to the trunk, Reduce, but leave green on each remaining branch. Leave 1/4” beyond the green.
2. Cut each full reduction flush to the truck/junction and slightly convex. Seal all cuts with Top Gin. For large cuts >1\8” cut paste w/green top when Top Gin dries.
3. Stop and check what options you have for a design. Think through the different styles, upright in this case. Sometimes a simple clump is the very best option. In this case look on YouTube for @JohnG’s azalea clump videos and follow his instructions.
= I almost never do a cut back without leaving some green on a stem for young nursery stock. (Yard Yamadori is a different story.). It’s normally bad practice and often results in a weak or dead azalea. You may disagree, people do, that’s ok with me. I’ve worked over 120 nursery azaleas in the past four years. Lost 2 as a rookie when I did a severe cutback. I’ve lost more due to rootwash experimenting!
4. After the first cutback wait and let the tree grow out. If there is lots of green up a trunk you wish to reduce, it’s possible to cutback leaving 1-2 buds up to mid June. After that let the tree regain strength for the rest of the year.
5. Protect during the winter >33F.
6. Late winter (in Puget Sound) in the next year rootwash and repot (90/10 kanuma/pumice). Use whatever media you think is best for your area. I won’t discuss media variations. Your tree your choice.
7. Remove all flower buds when they begin to show color. Assess the tree’s strength.
8. Do final reductions in the late (second) winter and seal properly. Grow out to design for the next year.

cheers
DSD sends

Lot's of good info DSD (if I can call you that) I'm only a quarter a way through Vol2 of Principles of Bonsai Design, but I'll make a point to finish it off by Spring. In the meantime my primordial noobness will be in full effect. Bummer I won't see all the pretty flowers but if it'll help in the long run then I'm good with that.

1. What do you mean by cartwheels? The crisscrossing branches?
2. I have cut paste & some Tanqueray. I'll look into getting some Top Gin.
3. Got it. Design is what I've been thinking about & continue to think about. It's one of the tougher things for my brain to do. I need to draw it out on paper, & finish reading De Groot.
4. No problem here. Good advice
5. GT 33 is pretty much what the nursery was doing it was in the hoop house. The temps differ that much because it's in a pot? The tag says 0-10F.
6. Good advice and I'll cross that bridge when I reach it. I did see a lot of bnuts using that soil mix in the contest thread.
7. So let the few I have left bloom before removal to concentrate energy into the tree?
8. Sounds good. TY

Most replies said not to wait and I'm fine with that. When should I chop early spring or can I do it sooner?

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

You are best off immediately dealing with any reverse taper. You can always keep a 2 or 3 flower buds on the plant. If you wait until after it flowered, it will have done some more growing. Which means the reverse taper got moderately worse.
Additionally, the backbudding on kurume is less strong later in the growing season.

This variety will not bud back on old wood spontaneously, like many satsuki would. Hence it is bald there. Therefore, you need to chop or hard prune to induce badbudding.
Additionally, several branches can not be allowed to thicken further.
Which ones kinda depend on your final design.
Which also depends on how many years of growing you want to invest before putting it in a training pot.

I think with this one, I would go for a single trunk. Then field grow it until it has recovered from/scarred over removing that large branch on the right. Possible develop some actual taper, depending on how it buds back. It could definite bud on that narrow part of the trunk just above the soil line/nebari, before it widens. That would be ideal. But it is also not a given. Or, it might take a second hard prune.

Yes, the reverse taper isn't good, but being new and looking at Azalea trunks, I wasn't seeing much I liked on most of them. Now that I think back, those clump style seem better. So waiting until it flowers is off the table. Several branches cannot be allowed to thicken? Because it would lead to more reverse taper?

Thanks for the info on back budding and the balding I was not aware of that. I do plan on chopping it hard, as soon as I come up with a design plan. I was thinking single trunk also. I'm kind of shying away from field growing it because of all the deer, rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels and you name it around here. I'm also concerned with our weather, and doubt this species would survive our winters outside. The tag on the azalea is also zone 7 and I'm 6a.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

@Glaucus brings up a really good point, getting to work as soon as possible will give the tree that much longer to recover and grow out. When I was first working with azaleas I always wanted to see see all the flowers in their glory. No more, Leave a couple and cut.

Reverse taper isnt a# much of a downer as with a maple, but your design should find a way to include it.

First half dozen azaleas are all learner trees anyways. So keep this in mind…. and get somemore!

Cheers
DSD sends

Definitely plan on getting more. Looking at different species and seeing if some will survive outside in MI. If I find a Bixby dwarf azalea I'll let you know.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

The strongly Rhododendron indicum-influenced varieties will backbud without pruning most strongly; Korin, Kinsai, Osakazuki, Kozan, Nikko, Yata no Kagami, etc.
Varieties like Kaho bud back a bit less.
On larger satsuki bonsai, all these sucker shoots can actually cause scars if not removed in time. It causes a swelling and can give a gnarly tumor-like surface on the trunk, rather than the usual smooth bark.
And these areas swollen areas will just bud back more and more.
Examples here:

Rhododendron indicum, 66 cm, ± 30 years old, trained by Kobayashi Sanyo

Japanese azalea (Chiyonishiki) | 660 x 550 x 340 mm | Origin: Japan | Trained by Kobayashi Sanyo

www.bonsaiplaza.com

It could actually be that this is a mechanism that can be managed; if you allow backbudding, you will get more in the future. But if you keep removing it immedaitely, maybe the bark will actually become barren and not able to produce backbudding shoots. This is kinda laso a think with suckers on the base of the trunk of deciduous trees.

The kurume in the OP will just never spontaneously backbud. Indeed, some kurume can bud back when very healthy and vigorous. But many always keep their base branches bald.
A Rhododendron indicum type variety will always try to bud back on unshaded base of the trunk. But it may stop trying once a bald part of the trunk has aged.

If your variety does not bud back naturally, then when you prune hard to induce backbudding, not doing a chop may result in all backbudding occurring near the cut site. Not on the very base of the trunk, where you may want it.
But this can vary based on cultivar, age, state of the bark where budding could occur, health, individual plant, and maybe climate.
Any azalea that is not in top health and only growing slowly generally won't bud back spontaneously.

Super informative. Thank you for your knowledge it's greatly appreciated. This will help in looking for other varieties.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Here's a few more pictures of different angles.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

The only thing I would add to all this great advice is to think about the tree in a different way than you would a normal deciduous tree in the planning for future shape. Think of it more as a platform for the flowers if you understand my meaning. Not to say that you shouldn't adhere to the normal tropes of no reverse taper, and so forth. But to rethink the branch forms, to show off the flowering in the best way, and to make sure that all "pads" are able to get adequate light into the interior so it can flower across the entire branch pad, and be strong for cutbacks and backbudding.

I'm with you. Solid advice thank you JudyB! My thought process is Step one Keep it alive. Step Two enjoy the learning process. Advice like this and from the others keeps me on track.

 

[Carol 83]

Definitely plan on getting more.

Nuccio's , hint, hint.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Nuccio's , hint, hint.

What do you think of Number 1 & 5 on page 35 of the catalog? I'll look into them some more and see what I like. That downloadable order form says 2018. That's the current one correct?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Yes, the reverse taper isn't good, but being new and looking at Azalea trunks, I wasn't seeing much I liked on most of them. Now that I think back, those clump style seem better. So waiting until it flowers is off the table. Several branches cannot be allowed to thicken? Because it would lead to more reverse taper?

As always it depends. If you are intending to cut back hard, the azalea won’t be very productive, so worrying about a reverse taper is not a major issue.

I’d encourage you to Google azalea Bonsai images and search some websites before you cut. Often I find folks have pruned themselves into a mediocre tree when there was great promise to begin with.

Thanks for the info on back budding and the balding I was not aware of that. I do plan on chopping it hard, as soon as I come up with a design plan. I was thinking single trunk also. I'm kind of shying away from field growing it because of all the deer, rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels and you name it around here.

Depending on the habit of the cultivar one can grow out azaleas in pots just as if they were in the ground, similar to Chojubai. Once the tree starts filling the pot it’s presently in, up pot it without major root cut back. The keep putting the tree.

As stated before a major cutback will stall the trunk growth for a couple of years until the tree pushes enough photosynthetic growth to catch up…. This is another reason I find major cutbacks distasteful vs stepwise. But if you are young, not so much of an issue.

btw I’d advise not pruning the foliage that sprouts at all for at least the first year, then be very selective.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

What do you think of Number 1 & 5 on page 35 of the catalog? I'll look into them some more and see what I like. That downloadable order form says 2018. That's the current one correct?

Yes, it correct. but don’t get too hung up on a particular cultivar. Nuccios has a huge demand. Instead figure out the growth habit and type of flower, single, semi double etc. Then call up Nuccios and talk to Jim or Tom (dunno if Julius is still there) and tell them the type cultivars you are looking at. They’ll run down and check then call back with what they have. Be sure to tell them you are in an edgy zone.

Btw Plumb Purty is awesome. Not a Satsuki but it’s a great azalea.

ps If you talk to Jim, tell him John in Bothell, WA said hi!

Cheers
DSD sends