Stop Needlecast before it starts!

[shimbrypaku]

Thank you for the information

 

[crust]

Neeflecast is a fungus disease that grows inside pine needles. It shows up later as “tiger stripes” about halfway up the needle. Eventually, the top half of the needle dies, and then the rest of the needle does, too.

This really weakens the tree. The spores can spread out from just a few branches, then tobthe entire tree, then go on to infect all your trees. Pines, particularly JBP are susceptible to it, but all needles trees can get it to some degree. At least in my experience.

The fungus infects the new needles as they are just being formed. In my case, that’s NOW, in the spring. Once it’s in there, there’s little you can do.

So, what’s the treatment?

First off, never bring home a tree that’s badly infected. You will likely not be able to completely cure it, and you risk infecting your entire collection.

Traditionally, sprays such as Daconil and a copper based fungicide are used to control it. If you spray, alternate between the two for best results. Do it weekly, or if you don’t have a bad problem, every other week.

And, what I’ve fond that really helps is a systemic. The fungicide is absorbed via the roots and carried up into the needle to stop it where it starts: in the needle. The sprays just keep it from spreading. The fungus inside the needle is largely unaffected by the sprays.

The system I use is Clearys 3336. It’s a granular lawn fungicide. It comes in large bags, 75 lbs, for spreading on the lawn. A product with the same active ingredient available on Amazon in smaller quantities is Bonide Infuse Systemic Fungicide. Spread a bit on the soil of all your pines while the candles are extending. That way it will be there when the needles start growing, and hopefully, they will be needlecast free!

If you decandle your JBP in the summer, give these trees a second dose about 2 weeks after you decandle. That will treat the second flush.

This, along with a good spraying program, will help you prevent needlecast.

One final tip, Neeflecast thrives on humid, damp, and places where there is restricted air movement. So, keep your pines out in the sun where they are exposed to the breeze. This keeps their foliage dry. And, if possible, try not to wet the foliage when you water your trees, and try not to water late in the evening when the moisture can just hang around all night.

I just treated all mine, and thought it might be helpful for others.

One more tip: i water my trees first. Then go around and put between a teaspoonful to a tablespoonful on each tree, sprinkled all around the soil. Then come back an do a light watering in. Easy Peasy!

My Clearys 3336 is liquid and in a bottle and was fairly expensive??

 

[Adair M]

My Clearys 3336 is liquid and in a bottle and was fairly expensive??

There’s a whole bunch of different formulations. Some are liquid, some are granular.

I researched the particular product John Kirby told me he was using, figured out what the active ingredient was, and found that the Bonide Infuse was the same as the granular Cleary’s 3336 that Kirby used, only it was sold in a 20 lb bag rather than a 70 lb bag. I don’t need 70 lbs if it! So, that’s why I recommend the Bonide, and I can get it from Amazon.

 

[Yugen]

Twice a year, for my pines. Needlecast infects the needles as they are growing. So, having it available when the needles are growing kills the fungus in inside the needle. Before it takes hold.

So, spring. That’s once.

I have a systemic fungicide for the first time this year. I only have single flush short needle pines and hemlock. When you say one application in the spring, is this literally once or is it one round of applications in the spring? Do you suggest using the systemic on mountain hemlock?

 

[River's Edge]

I have a systemic fungicide for the first time this year. I only have single flush short needle pines and hemlock. When you say one application in the spring, is this literally once or is it one round of applications in the spring? Do you suggest using the systemic on mountain hemlock?

I can provide some information. I will suggest that Mountain Hemlock are not susceptible to needle cast.
Actually have personally not seen any fungal issues on Mountain Hemlock.
Also the timing instructions will likely vary with the particular fungicide and the climatic location. Adair is deep down south and far, far away in the East.

Here on the island I use a systemic for needle cast with pines in the spring and the fall. This is based on the type I use and the times when we have favourable conditions for trees to be infected! Just prior to wet/ cool periods. One treatment in late September. And a second treatment in the beginning of April. The product I use indicates that it remains active in the tree for approximately six months.
Would further suggest you be very careful with the dosage and base it on the container size if possible. I tend to use a bit less than recommended when treating Bonsai.
Also when applying adjust watering for the type of soil being used to ensure it is not just washed past the roots before it can be taken in to the plant.
Some of the powder types will float off the surface with watering and it helps to stir into the substrate a bit to avoid this problem.

 

[Adair M]

From what I have been told, the fungus attacks as the needles are growing. So I try to apply the systemic so that it’s in the tree’s systems when the needles are growing. Which means I apply it just as the candles begin to extend.

and since I usually decandle in summer, new needles will grow soon after decandling, I apply it right after decandling to protect the second flush.

 

[Waldo]

I suspect that’s it. The small size of a bonsai vs a full size tree. I can only say that since I’ve been using the Clearys, I’ve had much better control over needlecast than when using the sprays alone.

I have found Daconil, by itself, doesn’t work very well. Copper by itself works pretty well, but doesn’t give complete control. Alternating Daconil and copper works better. And, finally, adding the Clearys has really turned the tide for me.

Several years ago, I made the mistake of thinking I could rescue a badly infected JBP, so I brought it home, and began treating it with Daconil and Copper spray. Didn’t work. Not only did I lose that tree, it infected several others I had as well! I lost two more trees! And while I was able to keep it from killing the others by using the sprays, it wasn’t until I added the Clearys that I was able to get them all clear again. Prior to having that infected tree, I really didn’t have a problem with needlecast. Now, I take no chances!

is there anywhere you can by Clearys or Thiomyl in quantities less than a quadruple lifetime supply ?

 

[River's Edge]

is there anywhere you can by Clearys or Thiomyl in quantities less than a quadruple lifetime supply ?

The Bonide Infuse granular is available in 5 lb. bags. If you are in the States it is available on line through DIY Pest supply! Regulations vary state by state regarding shipping and resale. Your profile does not indicate a location, so check on Amazon.

 

[ChristianDGreat]

Bonhe, you probably live in California, where it’s mostly low humidity. There, needlecast is less of a problem. You might not have to treat your trees for because your climate is working for you.

I live in the Southeast, where it’s humid, we get frequent rains, are surrounded by native pines that are susceptible to contracting and spreading needlecast. I’m not trying to rid the world of needlecast! Impossible! I’m just trying to keep my little population of trees disease free.

It’s not like AIDS, where that disease is 100% avoidable, it’s more like the flu. The flu virus is spread via the air. If you avoid crowds, it’s far less likely you will come into contact with the flu virus. If, however, you have to go to crowded places where there are a lot of people breathing the same air, it’s very likely you will breathe some air with the virus! So, to protect yourself, we have found that the best protection is an annual flu shot. Not 100% effective, but it’s the best we got.

So, Bonhe, if you don’t live where needlecast is prevalent, you don’t have to treat for it! Lucky you!

I do, so I do.

Everything “depends” on your situation!

This is good to hear for california folks
But again prevention is better than cure. I will put this into my JBP regime.

 

[leatherback]

Great thread. Great tips and great timing as I bought a tree last year which is now showing 100% of the needles infected.
Unfortunately, none of the mentioned products is for sale here. Seems the systemic fungicides are banned in EU.

Anybody any idea of good products in the EU?

 

[JeffS73]

Hi Leatherback,

I'm in the UK and I know what you mean. Many of the useful fungicides have been banned.

Bonide infuse and Clearys 3336f contain thiophanate-methyl which is linked to birth defects and cancer. You can occasionally see Topsin on ebay from Romania, though I expect customs would take a dim view of importing.

I've found a supplier for copper sold as an 'additive', try agrigem uk. This can at least stop spore transmission.

I read a doc on dothistroma from forest research which had a page on potentially useful chemicals, it gets quite complicated.

Basically, something like provanto fungus fighter plus contains two single site inhibitors that should work against needlecast. Legal and available for now! I would use this alongside copper.

I would also recommend removing as many needles as you can that are infected, and definitely those with brown or black spots that could be releasing spores. I'm considering removing all previous year needles once candles have opened on my infected trees. Not too difficult on JBP or scots, demoralising on JWP, firs, spruce and cedar.

If you've had it on your bench over the summer, consider treating nearby trees as infected

 

[leatherback]

If you've had it on your bench over the summer, consider treating nearby trees as infected

Na, I got it to me late september (?), and I was promised it was cured. I had seen it 2 years before, and noticed the disease. So I am a bit bummed. Will contact the nursery too, of course!

Bonide infuse and Clearys 3336f contain thiophanate-methyl which is linked to birth defects and cancer.

Sounds like reasonable grounds for not allowing its use, yet...

copper

I bought some form of copper last year, which I am adding to rose anti-fungal sulfur powder when spraying against milldew.

I'm considering removing all previous year needles once candles have opened on my infected trees.

Happy I am not the only one with this idea. I was actually thinking about doing this as soon as the candles have extended to the point one can see needles forming. Feels radical, but..

 

[cmeg1]

For me, if I don't see the disease, I won't treat them.

Thats about how I am considering all this now.I try to maintain a very high brix leaf with loads of calcium into the plant by simply making it available with tons of amino acids( L Glutamate/L Glycine) added to every irrigation.
The leaves have been discovered to build calcium pectate in the stomamta and leaf cells making them less susseptible to spores taking hold with the much more vast quantities of calcium.
Needlecast is particularly aggressive though....moreso than the basic grey mold or what have you.
I also irrigate all the needles only during airy weather and sunny times ( ideally daily)with a bit of yucca powder( and a bit of humic acid as a leaf wash).
The yucca is a mild fungicide with its leaf coating attributes.And also, whatever is making yucca and other desert plants so strong and resistant to environmental stresses of the arid desert is transporting directly into the leaf cells and roots when added to your fertilizer regime( though this is largely unproven or researched science).
Also a high brix plant with good chlorophyl production will have a thicker waxy coating on the leaf with smaller leaf cells that are consideralbly stonger and resistant to disease.
A slightly higher potassium to nitrate ratio will help achieve this along with lower nitrogen overall and more photosynthesis accellerating additives......kelp,microbes,humic/fulvic acids,calcium,magnesium,sulphate based minerals........yucca powder will keep all these in organics and minerals in suspension per the nutrient solution.

Ok well learn by doing.........nice concept though......I will see how it works.

 

[JeffS73]

CM, take a look at this scanning electron microscope image of dothistroma hyphae penetrating stomata!



I'm sure healthy plants are generally stronger and more resistant, but that looks like a takedown to me.

Apparently there's some hope in resistant strains of Scots pine, something for the future I guess.

What source do you use for aminos? The RAW stuff is hideously expensive.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Great thread. Great tips and great timing as I bought a tree last year which is now showing 100% of the needles infected.
Unfortunately, none of the mentioned products is for sale here. Seems the systemic fungicides are banned in EU.

Anybody any idea of good products in the EU?

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Seems to be effective, broad spectrum and available in most gardenstores. Together with copper sulfate it should stop the new infections. I use this stuff only when I have infected plants from the wild.
For preventative measure I use bioprotective fungi like trichoderma viride. Amazon and ebay offer a small range of these products.

 

[cmeg1]

Needlecast is particularly aggressive though....moreso than the basic grey mold or what have you.

@JeffS73
Yes,I am with you on that.My preventative measures are reportedly 100% effective in Dutch greenhouses for molds and the like though!
We will see.....I can only hope......I grow these seedlings by the 1000’s ......so experiment is on for sure

I would get the Amino from Kalix....their parent company.......and have supply for as long as the product is viable.....say 5-6 years?
Great stuff.....increases calcium uptake from 1 ion at a time to 1000 ions at a time by creating calcium ion channals on the roots and not just relying on the normal way for uptake from the plants transpiration process......proven Dutch fungicide for greenhouses quite literally.

KALIX Amino Acids (Soluble + Maximize Calcium Availability)

Discover the power of KALIX Amino Acids, your key to nutrient chelation and enhanced plant nutrition. Our amino acids are compatible with all nutrient and feeding programs, making them a versatile choice for plant care. Elevate your gardening experience with this essential solution for...

www.kalixcpn.com

 

[bonhe]

Thats about how I am considering all this now.I try to maintain a very high brix leaf with loads of calcium into the plant by simply making it available with tons of amino acids( L Glutamate/L Glycine) added to every irrigation.
The leaves have been discovered to build calcium pectate in the stomamta and leaf cells making them less susseptible to spores taking hold with the much more vast quantities of calcium.
Needlecast is particularly aggressive though....moreso than the basic grey mold or what have you.
I also irrigate all the needles only during airy weather and sunny times ( ideally daily)with a bit of yucca powder( and a bit of humic acid as a leaf wash).
The yucca is a mild fungicide with its leaf coating attributes.And also, whatever is making yucca and other desert plants so strong and resistant to environmental stresses of the arid desert is transporting directly into the leaf cells and roots when added to your fertilizer regime( though this is largely unproven or researched science).
Also a high brix plant with good chlorophyl production will have a thicker waxy coating on the leaf with smaller leaf cells that are consideralbly stonger and resistant to disease.
A slightly higher potassium to nitrate ratio will help achieve this along with lower nitrogen overall and more photosynthesis accellerating additives......kelp,microbes,humic/fulvic acids,calcium,magnesium,sulphate based minerals........yucca powder will keep all these in organics and minerals in suspension per the nutrient solution.

Ok well learn by doing.........nice concept though......I will see how it works.
View attachment 358904View attachment 358905View attachment 358906View attachment 358907

The tree looks very healthy. Your approach sounds good to me.
Did you know we can use monosodium glutamate (MSG - is salt of amino acid : glutamic acid). MSG is actually very good for tree for warding off the insects according to one source. Some of my friends use it and they said it was good. I forgot about MSG for a while. Thanks for reminding me.
By the way, MSG is really cheap!
Thụ Thoại

 

[Gabler]

And, the Granular version does NOT harm the beneficial mychorrazzae in the soil! I don’t know about the liquid.

This is what had me confused when I first started reading the thread. Wouldn't you want to avoid systemic fungicide altogether? What keeps the granular version from destroying the mycelium?

 

[leatherback]

What keeps the granular version from destroying the mycelium?

Fungi are a group of species, just like plants or animals. What kills one, does not per se kill another species.

 

[ChristianDGreat]

Quick question, Assume I follow the recommendation here.

Copper + Daconil (alternate every week) + Systemic (Spring and another after 2 weeks after decandle).

Do I need to remove "All" the needle with needle cast ? (1-2 year needle?).

Or I dont need to remove all since all the new needle have protection already?

thanks
Chris