Stop Needlecast before it starts!

[M. Frary]

Didn't the trees in the Lorax have neefles?

 

[M. Frary]

As an arborists and a certified spray applicator

Same here.
Former line clearance tree killer and herbicide applicator.
Now a feller buncher operator.
Every tree has the potential in it to be a stump.

 

[justBonsai]

I've had pretty good spring growth this year. Free of fungus or deformations, very clean looking leaves. This year was the first time I did dormant spraying on my trees and it made a difference. Unfortunately a 2 day heat wave and gust last night damaged a lot of new growth

As zelk mentioned you can get thiomyl products off amazon. This is what I've used the past year:
https://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ag-...74&sr=8-3&keywords=thiomyl+systemic+fungicide

Much cheaper than clearys and seems to work.

 

[bonsai-ben]

Thank you for the Needlecast tips. I have two trees that have suffered for a year from them purchased from South Florida. Daconil was primarily my only source. I'll adjust my methods as directed here and look for better results. Here in Orlando, and south of here, Needlecast is almost expected on a JBP. With your advice I hope to prove them wrong! Thank you

 

[milehigh_7]

As an arborists and a certified spray applicator I treat hundreds of spruces and pines every year for needle cast. I use a copper based fungicide applied 3 times per spring.

I'll have to disagree with you though about the systemic fungicide working, there is absolutly no evidence showing that this practice is effective at all. I've talked with the top plant pathologists in the state about this exact topic and they say that specifically timed sprays are the only way to control Needle cast.

But, maybe given the small size of a bonsai the tree is actually able to translocate the fungicide effectively.

Tell you what, why don't you and Adair both post pics of your JBP bonsai. It ought to be fun. There are things I argue with him about but not JBPs.

 

[M. Frary]

. It ought to be fun.

Fun for the rest of us.
Not so much for the arborist.
Where I work everyone is an arborist.
It's a fancy name for people who work with trees. Trim trees,cut trees. They also identify diseases and problems with trees.
Some get ASI certified like me. It helps with promotions.
Some forresters are certified,some aren't. They're all only just tree painters.
When I hear arborist or Forrester I hear "I know trees better than you" or "I have a title,You're just a tree killer" or "I know conservation better than you because I took a college course"
I have only met a couple who weren't douches. Older ones who have been out in the woods for 20 years or more and know forestry can't be learned from a book it has to be lived.

 

[Adamantium]

Does this look like neeflecast?

 

[bonhe]

Does anyone know what is resistant fungus problem if you keep using antifungal agent without clear indication? The reason I ask because nowadays, we have so many antibiotics resistant bacteria which cause serious problem for health care providers in fighting to the infectious diseases. We have Vancomycin - resistant enterococcus (VRE), vancomycin resistant staphylococcus aureus, etc.. !!!
So be very careful in using antifungal agent for your trees, otherwise, you have nothing left to treat those fungal infection when your trees really need that!
Primary prevention is very important. Try to keep the "critical areas" of the tree in the status which not suitable for fungal growth. The "critical" areas are the inner and lower aspects of the tree. It means let these areas dry, well light and ventilated. The fungus likes dark, humid and stagnant air!!
Bonhe

 

[Adair M]

Does anyone know what is resistant fungus problem if you keep using antifungal agent without clear indication? The reason I ask because nowadays, we have so many antibiotics resistant bacteria which cause serious problem for health care providers in fighting to the infectious diseases. We have Vancomycin - resistant enterococcus (VRE), vancomycin resistant staphylococcus aureus, etc.. !!!
So be very careful in using antifungal agent for your trees, otherwise, you have nothing left to treat those fungal infection when your trees really need that!
Primary prevention is very important. Try to keep the "critical areas" of the tree in the status which not suitable for fungal growth. The "critical" areas are the inner and lower aspects of the tree. It means let these areas dry, well light and ventilated. The fungus likes dark, humid and stagnant air!!
Bonhe

That s why I rotate and use multiple types of fungicide.

It’s like we have to do with treating horses for worms. We have to rotate the meds we use so that we don’t develop a resistant strain.

 

[bonhe]

That s why I rotate and use multiple types of fungicide.
It’s like we have to do with treating horses for worms. We have to rotate the meds we use so that we don’t develop a resistant strain.

The practice to rotate the fungicide may be good for the short term treatment but not for long term. You must stop the treatment in some point!
I'd like to remind you that we have 2 kinds of prevention: primary and secondary prevention. The primary prevention is the way to prevent the problem from happening. The secondary prevention is that the problem already happened and now one tries to prevent it re-happen.! In your topic, it looks like you are talking about the secondary prevention. In the public health, the primary prevention is much more important than secondary prevention since most of the case, we don't have to use any agent for the subject. Primary prevention is treating the cause of the problem!
Secondary prevention is related to use any agent to prevent the problem from coming back! One would stop the secondary prevention when the reason for that problem is cured. For example, if HIV patient has CD 4 count < 200 , he/she needs to have prophylactic treatment for Pneumocystic pneumonia with antibiotic Bactrim đaily until CD 4 count is > 200.

The primary prevention for fungal disease on the tree is relatively simple. Tree needs sunlight, wind and enough humidity to keep the fungal diseases away. Just imagine why the people get athlete feet or Jock Itch?! These are fungal diseases. It is due to stagnant air, too much humidity and darkness, isn't it? Fungus loves this kind of environment to grow unrestrictedly!!!
I will try to write a topic how to do primary prevention for fungal disease in the near future.
Just my 2 cents
Bonhe

 

[Adamantium]

Does this look like neeflecast?

Anybody? I bought this tree in an auction, but haven't finalized the deal yet. Wondering if I should back out...

 

[Adair M]

The practice to rotate the fungicide may be good for the short term treatment but not for long term. You must stop the treatment in some point!
I'd like to remind you that we have 2 kinds of prevention: primary and secondary prevention. The primary prevention is the way to prevent the problem from happening. The secondary prevention is that the problem already happened and now one tries to prevent it re-happen.! In your topic, it looks like you are talking about the secondary prevention. In the public health, the primary prevention is much more important than secondary prevention since most of the case, we don't have to use any agent for the subject. Primary prevention is treating the cause of the problem!
Secondary prevention is related to use any agent to prevent the problem from coming back! One would stop the secondary prevention when the reason for that problem is cured. For example, if HIV patient has CD 4 count < 200 , he/she needs to have prophylactic treatment for Pneumocystic pneumonia with antibiotic Bactrim đaily until CD 4 count is > 200.

The primary prevention for fungal disease on the tree is relatively simple. Tree needs sunlight, wind and enough humidity to keep the fungal diseases away. Just imagine why the people get athlete feet or Jock Itch?! These are fungal diseases. It is due to stagnant air, too much humidity and darkness, isn't it? Fungus loves this kind of environment to grow unrestrictedly!!!
I will try to write a topic how to do primary prevention for fungal disease in the near future.
Just my 2 cents
Bonhe

Bonhe,

The problem is, we are not in total control over the weather!

Like I mentioned, try not to water just before dark? Try not to water the foliage, etc. But we cannot control the weather. Our neighbors may have infected trees. These things are out of our control.

Therefore, we have. To assume our trees have some degree of exposure to needlecast. And while healthy trees can fight off the worst of it, a seasonal spray and application of systemic helps a lot.

I see no reason why we must stop seasonsal spraying.

 

[wireme]

The practice to rotate the fungicide may be good for the short term treatment but not for long term. You must stop the treatment in some point!
I'd like to remind you that we have 2 kinds of prevention: primary and secondary prevention. The primary prevention is the way to prevent the problem from happening. The secondary prevention is that the problem already happened and now one tries to prevent it re-happen.! In your topic, it looks like you are talking about the secondary prevention. In the public health, the primary prevention is much more important than secondary prevention since most of the case, we don't have to use any agent for the subject. Primary prevention is treating the cause of the problem!
Secondary prevention is related to use any agent to prevent the problem from coming back! One would stop the secondary prevention when the reason for that problem is cured. For example, if HIV patient has CD 4 count < 200 , he/she needs to have prophylactic treatment for Pneumocystic pneumonia with antibiotic Bactrim đaily until CD 4 count is > 200.

The primary prevention for fungal disease on the tree is relatively simple. Tree needs sunlight, wind and enough humidity to keep the fungal diseases away. Just imagine why the people get athlete feet or Jock Itch?! These are fungal diseases. It is due to stagnant air, too much humidity and darkness, isn't it? Fungus loves this kind of environment to grow unrestrictedly!!!
I will try to write a topic how to do primary prevention for fungal disease in the near future.
Just my 2 cents
Bonhe

Where I am the climate is quite nice during the growing season. Lots of sun, low humidity, usually. So I’ve never had much needlecast problem, every now and then a small amount. A couple years back we had unusually wet and cool weather for a long time as needles were emerging, horrible needlecast on my Douglas firs. Looking around at the forest trees same thing needle cast everywhere!
The following year completely different weather so I didn’t treat the trees even though it was so bad the previous year and no problems whatsoever. I’m not a fungicide user but if similar weather conditions happen I’ll have to think about it and just may cave. I imagine some climates are much more prone than others and airflow alone is just not enough, chronic problems despite best care practices kind of thing so maybe yearly treatment is the only way to go?

 

[Dav4]

For 10 years, I kept junipers and JBP in MA... never had fungal issues or spider mites. I moved to humid and thunderstorm ridden GA 9 years ago and I've had all my JBP get needle cast and many of my junipers get rust and spider mites annually. I never needed to spray in MA.... but I'm in GA now... I spray a lot!

 

[bonhe]

Bonhe,

The problem is, we are not in total control over the weather!

Like I mentioned, try not to water just before dark? Try not to water the foliage, etc. But we cannot control the weather. Our neighbors may have infected trees. These things are out of our control.

Therefore, we have. To assume our trees have some degree of exposure to needlecast. And while healthy trees can fight off the worst of it, a seasonal spray and application of systemic helps a lot.

I see no reason why we must stop seasonsal spraying.

I totally agree that we can not control weather, but we can adjust our practice on our trees: the way we water, the way we train the tree to get the "critical area" better or disappear completely, the way we place the tree, etc.. to avoid the fungal problem. The fungal is every where on the earth, but does not mean that we have to kill them all. For me, if I don't see the disease, I won't treat them. As you might know, the pharmaceutical companies just want to concentrate their researches on new medication to treat human' s diseases, but not for tree's diseases. If we freely use pesticides or fungicides on out tree without clear indication now, we may have a risk of treatment failure later on when our trees get real problems.
Bonhe

 

[bonsai-ben]

Anybody? I bought this tree in an auction, but haven't finalized the deal yet. Wondering if I should back out...

That is not needlecast, but I dont know what it is. I am not a pine expert. But since you asked twice to no reply, no, that is not needlecast. Is that tree healthy? Hell if I know. I just know its not needlecast.

 

[Adair M]

Bonhe, you probably live in California, where it’s mostly low humidity. There, needlecast is less of a problem. You might not have to treat your trees for because your climate is working for you.

I live in the Southeast, where it’s humid, we get frequent rains, are surrounded by native pines that are susceptible to contracting and spreading needlecast. I’m not trying to rid the world of needlecast! Impossible! I’m just trying to keep my little population of trees disease free.

It’s not like AIDS, where that disease is 100% avoidable, it’s more like the flu. The flu virus is spread via the air. If you avoid crowds, it’s far less likely you will come into contact with the flu virus. If, however, you have to go to crowded places where there are a lot of people breathing the same air, it’s very likely you will breathe some air with the virus! So, to protect yourself, we have found that the best protection is an annual flu shot. Not 100% effective, but it’s the best we got.

So, Bonhe, if you don’t live where needlecast is prevalent, you don’t have to treat for it! Lucky you!

I do, so I do.

Everything “depends” on your situation!

 

[Adamantium]

That is not needlecast, but I dont know what it is. I am not a pine expert. But since you asked twice to no reply, no, that is not needlecast. Is that tree healthy? Hell if I know. I just know its not needlecast.

Thanks! That's really good to hear.

The guy I bought it from says that it experienced a bit of a drought last year, so maybe that's what it is?

 

[bonhe]

Bonhe, you probably live in California, where it’s mostly low humidity. There, needlecast is less of a problem. You might not have to treat your trees for because your climate is working for you.

I live in the Southeast, where it’s humid, we get frequent rains, are surrounded by native pines that are susceptible to contracting and spreading needlecast. I’m not trying to rid the world of needlecast! Impossible! I’m just trying to keep my little population of trees disease free.

It’s not like AIDS, where that disease is 100% avoidable, it’s more like the flu. The flu virus is spread via the air. If you avoid crowds, it’s far less likely you will come into contact with the flu virus. If, however, you have to go to crowded places where there are a lot of people breathing the same air, it’s very likely you will breathe some air with the virus! So, to protect yourself, we have found that the best protection is an annual flu shot. Not 100% effective, but it’s the best we got.

So, Bonhe, if you don’t live where needlecast is prevalent, you don’t have to treat for it! Lucky you!

I do, so I do.

Everything “depends” on your situation!

Yes, even though I am living in hot and dry weather, I still have fungal problem on my trees but of course much less chance to get it if I pay more attention on primary prevention
To prevent the flu, it is why they have flu shot every year to prevent the people get flu. Getting a flu shot, it is primary prevention. I wish we have vaccination for fungal infection! When one gets flu, depending on situation, one will get Tamiflu and it is treatment. It is secondary prevention to avoid complications from the severe flu and to get well sooner, IMO, using fungicide to prevent fungal infection is not primary prevention any more! So, whatever works for you, you should continue doing that. I am not in your shoes to say more.
Bonhe

 

[Adair M]

Yes, even though I am living in hot and dry weather, I still have fungal problem on my trees but of course much less chance to get it if I pay more attention on primary prevention
To prevent the flu, it is why they have flu shot every year to prevent the people get flu. Getting a flu shot, it is primary prevention. I wish we have vaccination for fungal infection! When one gets flu, depending on situation, one will get Tamiflu and it is treatment. It is secondary prevention to avoid complications from the severe flu and to get well sooner, IMO, using fungicide to prevent fungal infection is not primary prevention any more! So, whatever works for you, you should continue doing that. I am not in your shoes to say more.
Bonhe

That, my friend, is what the Cleary’s does! It’s the closest thing we have to a flu shot!