Stone Selection for my trident maple ROR | Root over Rock

[Shibui]

By coincidence I had our local club here today. A couple asked about developing ROR so we had an impromptu demo of how I start then looked at a couple of second year trees developing and then 3rd year trees. No pics though

 

[leatherback]

No pics though

Well.. You know what they say.. Pictures or..

 

[raffaelbaer]

After my trip to croatia / cornati by sail boat, I was able to collect some nice rocks for my trident project, this is the one that made it for me and I will use in spring to plant my trident on:



I personally prefer a rotation somewhere between 1 and 2, because picture 1 is a bit to "3d" and picture 2 doesnt have the effect at all.
I can see my composition in 10-12 years looking somewhat like that, of course with the roots nicely griping in the few grooves that the stone has and following the contours:





The stones measurments:
height (y-achsis): 17cm ~ 6.69 inches
widht (x-achsis): 16cm ~ 6,29 inches
depth (z-achsis): 15cm ~5,90 inches

If any of you guys wonder where exactly I found it (Ive marked myself the exact coordinates, since im often traveling to this region by sailboat):

43.823684, 15.248461



basically I found it on the top of a Island in kornati, actually one which is directly on the edge to the adriatic see with free water till ancona, italy.
Fun fact, most of these Islands now are looking completely arid and dried out, and everywhere you can find these rocks like mine, however earlier in our timeline, the romans cleared the whole islands from trees, therefore they dont have any native vegetation on many islands there anymore, a few are left, which are mostly vegetated by coastal pines and junipers, salvia and some native croatian stuff...

Heres another rock I found on the same island
Planing on using it for a composition with a seiju elm
However it also would look just as nice as suiseki, though not typically shaped for that
Images are not from the best angles though, so just imagine it better


Also heres the small trident I will be planting next year (a photo of it from august this year), for the meantime i put it in a teracotta pot to get long roots over the course of this year and the rest of it.
The tree is now sitting in winter storage for just 2 weeks and it has already slightly rooted itself into the ground, there are definitely enough roots....



So I would say we could turn this thread into a progression, since this is one of the projects (besides my jbp growing operation) that gave me the most "Kopfkino" (Headcinema) this year, dont know if this word even exists in englisch, however in germany it certaily does .

I find it great to have found interest in this hobby arround 2 years ago, since Im just 19 (turning 20 next february), I've got 60-80 years (if very lucky, though I live very healthy) to grow myself on of the most astonishing collections I can imagine.
Just imagine sitting there and looking at your collection of (my envisionment 30-40 trees max) collection where most of trees are well over 50 years old, and teaching your grandparents how they can start their own. Now also imagine the quality of the grown trees and also the patina on the pots. Im here for a marathon not a sprint, growing many trees from seed and few from saplings (like this one, just 1-3 years old) I plan on growing show worthy, fine trees, that will outlive me.

Cheers
Raffael

 

[raffaelbaer]

After my trip to croatia / cornati by sail boat, I was able to collect some nice rocks for my trident project, this is the one that made it for me and I will use in spring to plant my trident on:

View attachment 573073View attachment 573074View attachment 573075

I personally prefer a rotation somewhere between 1 and 2, because picture 1 is a bit to "3d" and picture 2 doesnt have the effect at all.
I can see my composition in 10-12 years looking somewhat like that, of course with the roots nicely griping in the few grooves that the stone has and following the contours:


View attachment 573076


The stones measurments:
height (y-achsis): 17cm ~ 6.69 inches
widht (x-achsis): 16cm ~ 6,29 inches
depth (z-achsis): 15cm ~5,90 inches

If any of you guys wonder where exactly I found it (Ive marked myself the exact coordinates, since im often traveling to this region by sailboat):

43.823684, 15.248461

View attachment 573078

basically I found it on the top of a Island in kornati, actually one which is directly on the edge to the adriatic see with free water till ancona, italy.
Fun fact, most of these Islands now are looking completely arid and dried out, and everywhere you can find these rocks like mine, however earlier in our timeline, the romans cleared the whole islands from trees, therefore they dont have any native vegetation on many islands there anymore, a few are left, which are mostly vegetated by coastal pines and junipers, salvia and some native croatian stuff...

Heres another rock I found on the same island
Planing on using it for a composition with a seiju elm
However it also would look just as nice as suiseki, though not typically shaped for that
Images are not from the best angles though, so just imagine it better
View attachment 573079View attachment 573080

Also heres the small trident I will be planting next year (a photo of it from august this year), for the meantime i put it in a teracotta pot to get long roots over the course of this year and the rest of it.
The tree is now sitting in winter storage for just 2 weeks and it has already slightly rooted itself into the ground, there are definitely enough roots....

View attachment 573081

So I would say we could turn this thread into a progression, since this is one of the projects (besides my jbp growing operation) that gave me the most "Kopfkino" (Headcinema) this year, dont know if this word even exists in englisch, however in germany it certaily does .

I find it great to have found interest in this hobby arround 2 years ago, since Im just 19 (turning 20 next february), I've got 60-80 years (if very lucky, though I live very healthy) to grow myself on of the most astonishing collections I can imagine.
Just imagine sitting there and looking at your collection of (my envisionment 30-40 trees max) collection where most of trees are well over 50 years old, and teaching your grandparents how they can start their own. Now also imagine the quality of the grown trees and also the patina on the pots. Im here for a marathon not a sprint, growing many trees from seed and few from saplings (like this one, just 1-3 years old) I plan on growing show worthy, fine trees, that will outlive me.

Cheers
Raffael

Oh and I meant grandchildren not grandparents, upsi

 

[Shibui]

I personally prefer a rotation somewhere between 1 and 2, because picture 1 is a bit to "3d" and picture 2 doesnt have the effect at all.
I can see my composition in 10-12 years looking somewhat like that, of course with the roots nicely griping in the few grooves that the stone has and following the contours:

Sounds like you have not made ROR before so may not yet be aware of all the hurdles ahead.
Just be aware that you first need a tree that has roots that will fit your rock.
Then you need a tree with roots that fit your rock to show your preferred front.
Then you need the roots that wrap the rock on the sides you want to grow and thicken.
Then you need the trunk shape that matches the rock shape and angle.
You also need the trunk angle to match your preferred front of the rock - and the roots that are growing on that rock.
Finally you need branches growing from good spots on the trunk.

Now you have a great ROR. Easy isn't it?

I admire optimism but I've developed hundreds of ROR tridents so now I'm a realist. Probably only 2/3 end up as passable bonsai. Of those only a small proportion will be better quality.
Knowledge and technique can help a lot but you're still faced with chance that affects which roots develop and which don't. For those aspiring to develop good ROR bonsai I recommend having a number of trees and a number of rocks so you have choices when matching the roots to rocks. I also recommend starting 10 or more ROR so you can cull out those that don't meet expectations as they grow and develop.

 

[raffaelbaer]

Sounds like you have not made ROR before so may not yet be aware of all the hurdles ahead.
Just be aware that you first need a tree that has roots that will fit your rock.
Then you need a tree with roots that fit your rock to show your preferred front.
Then you need the roots that wrap the rock on the sides you want to grow and thicken.
Then you need the trunk shape that matches the rock shape and angle.
You also need the trunk angle to match your preferred front of the rock - and the roots that are growing on that rock.
Finally you need branches growing from good spots on the trunk.

Now you have a great ROR. Easy isn't it?

I admire optimism but I've developed hundreds of ROR tridents so now I'm a realist. Probably only 2/3 end up as passable bonsai. Of those only a small proportion will be better quality.
Knowledge and technique can help a lot but you're still faced with chance that affects which roots develop and which don't. For those aspiring to develop good ROR bonsai I recommend having a number of trees and a number of rocks so you have choices when matching the roots to rocks. I also recommend starting 10 or more ROR so you can cull out those that don't meet expectations as they grow and develop.

Shure I know its just not as easy as it sounds, however Im commited to do the work with correct technique and excecution, and also constantly improve. Working on 10 or more root over rock trees sadly isn't feasible for me at the moment since I've got many other projects started, though this seems like great advice overall! Only problem I've got with this way of working is, Im sort of a guy who can only really work on 4-5 projects rather than 20 projects, also if I work on 4-5 projects, I can focus 100% of my thought energy on these instead of having to spread 100% of my focus to 20 projects, meaning I archive higher quality, since I have more time for decision making and always have a exact plan on what to do next with the project im working on.

So for now I'll stick with this composition and focus on building the best I can possibly. That doesnt mean my way of working won't change in the future.
Advice from more experienced people is always appreaciated, and I'd like to incorporate it into my chain of thought!

For now we'll see how this goes. I've got enough time to try every possiblity

Updates will follow on every major events this tree will go through (eg. repotting, styling decision, pruning and on...)