I would think your quote of Dr Linda Chalker-Scott's is a little unfair as it is out of context.
In actual fact she states "IBA has had some success in root regeneration in transplanted trees"
Then she goes on to say this may be by redirecting resources to the roots instead of top growth.
She also goes on to say much the same thing about NAA regenerating roots of transplanted and root pruned trees the only time she says MAY is when she guesses about why this happens.
Where are the studies? I got the impression when reading her statements that she was speculating, or inferring there was a benefit, but I can find reference to no actual studies. I suppose the conifer field studies I cited below could be used to support her argument, but again these were for seedlings, not nursery trees.
I thought that the oposite was accepted that field growing is the ideal enviroment and pot growing had limitations that must be overcome??
Field growing is ideal only in that it is a limitless pot. Other than that, there are plenty of limitations in almost any field growing situation. We are discussing tranplanting where space is not a consideration. Space is not a consideration in pot growing until after root colonization. Let's discuss one thing at a time please. If you want a high rate of survival, do you plant seeds or seedlings in native soil and take your chances, or do you sow them in pots and control every conceivable parameter?
Apart from your opinion that a pot is an ideal enviroment I see no other reason to suggest that auxins are no use in container growing.
So my entire discussion on the factors (natural auxin drivers) that favor successful transplantation and root stimulation,such as top growth, root pruning, correct fertilization, light, water, etc as factors that would either obviate or overwhelm any stimulation of lateral roots from NAA, you completely dismiss? Excuse me, but all these things are proven auxin generators or root support systems. You sir have not shown that NAA treatments can have any benefit that can be detected in beyond these factors in mature plant systems. You are speculating that is the case, but you have not shown it, nor has anyone else as far as I can see.
And again I would ask what about if that containered tree ends up in less than Ideal conditions.
I do agree with your opinion of Dr Linda Chalker-Scott otherwise.
You cannot lump all cases of subnormal growth together. You have to treat each problem individually. For example, and I speculate, an NAA treatment for a plant that has a severely impaired root system due to diseases such as Phytophora may simply be pushed over the edge rather than stimulated. We don't know. You can't just assume auxin treatment would help, it may very well hurt. Just as nitrogen feeding helps in some distress situations and hurts in others.
I find the last two sentances interesting because it seems to back up the previous reading that Auxin can help root pruned transplanted seedlings but is of no use to normally growing seedlings that have undergone no stress.
OR, it could mean that auxin treatments are worthless in some soil mixes. My point is that extrapolation is a dangerous thing, and always has to be tested.
I would think that seedlings are used for the experiments for practicality and expense of the tests I see no reason for this statement.
Perhaps, but this doesn't change the fact that new seedling root systems are physiologically different than mature root systems.
This study seems to show that there was an increase in root to shoot ratio but with the measurement system they used it seems hard to conclude wether the root formation was increased or just the top growth inhibited. I would not say this
In fact it seems to show an increase in RSR from auxin in a non stressed plant.
So, you weren't impressed with the first sentence of the conclusion?
"In conclusion, exogenous BA and NAA applications inhibited plant height and leaf
number of C. acuminata in a hydroponic culture system, and NAA applications also inhibited
plant weight and leaf length."
I think you are being disingenuous here. You are perfectly capable of understanding the multiple measures, and in addition I even put forth an argument in another section that TOTAL plant weight may be the BEST indicator of efficaciousness.
I also think I need some clarification on why you call this a woody plant is it the type of plant or the age of the seedling?
Peas, corn, and cress (Arabidopsis), I don't consider woody plants. These are used in most of the auxin experiments. Conifers and deciduous trees (not annuals or herbaceous perennials), are what I am calling 'woody' plants.
Yes it is fair to only state what was conducted in the experiments but I see no reason to think this would not be the same for woody mature plants. But maybe I am missing something??
Yes, you are missing the fact that to extrapolate these findings to other species and situations is merely unproven speculation. Just to give you one example: In the study above that showed lateral root stimulation in the bareroot seedling, but not the plug grown seedling. Honestly, would you have predicted that? Does that mean that auxin treatments will ONLY work in bareroot situations?
I am sorry but I did not see this in the studies???
Auxin treatment was counterproductive in the last study on C. acuminata in the last study. There was a wide range of effects among the conifer species tested.
When I read this
I wonder if you are being fair in your thinking. I have often read that fast colinisation of the roots is exactly what you want in containerised plants as it adds structure to the soil and one would think eventually greater plant growth/wieght
Yes, but how you get there may be what's important, and that's what I am arguing. In field systems initial root growth preference over top growth is a survival strategy. This builds a mass of root storage from extant leaves while suppressing shoot growth which would put a demand on the root system. This allows a plant to withstand shocks. When the roots reach a 'critical mass' they unleash a torrent of cytokinins to produce shoots. This is species dependent. Western oaks may not send up a shoot for as long as seven years, then grow four feet in year eight. Plants in containers do this too, but to a lesser degree. They usually will root colonize a bit before sending up a shoot (but this is still species dependent). Once the roots hit a wall, they begin to sense limitations and will usually go into shoot mode.
But in container plants, this is a strategy that usually is not needed. This is part of what I am talking about containers being an ideal system. They don't necessarily need that root insurance because we don't, or shouldn't, allow them to become stressed. In a container system, it might in fact be
more beneficial to send up a shoot as soon as the roots can support it. Why? Because a shoot is the strongest auxin source in a plant, much stronger than an NAA drench could ever be. It is these natural auxin sources and ther support that you have consistently refused to acknowledge. This early form of usable auxin does not significantly increase lateral rooting but instead increases PRIMARY rooting which in turn send more cytokinins for more shoot growth, the reinforcing cycle. This means fast establishment. One of the things that auxin drenches do is to favor lateral growth over primary root growth. As far as I can see, that is the crux of the strategy of using them.
Thus the question becomes, which system will produce TOTAL PLANT WEIGHT more quickly? I think this is an important question. This argument also points out why you simply can't extrapolate from a simple experiment to a complete growing system.
Your idea for the experiment sounds like the best field experiment proposal without destroying the test subjects.Although I would think that a pure auxin compound would be favourable for one to eliminate the other substances in Super thrive and also to show cheaper ways of using this hormone.
Yes, in thinking about it afterward, NAA should be used alone. I think we have ruled out other possibilities and only one parameter at a time should be considered.
You questioned my original post about auxins and I have answerd all your questions and seems that my statement still stands true.
You could always just give up
I found this comment a little hard to take.
Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
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