So this happened, and I need your help!

[Johnathan]

Well I was searching for marigolds at my fav nursery here in OKC and wandered into the 50% off section. I got a really big grey owl juniper (before realizing they were CLOSELY related to Eastern Red Cedar) from there a while back for $10 bucks so I figured why not have a look.

A few cypress, and the other grey owl juniper was there that I left from a few months ago... and then I saw this Japanese Black Pine.

Called a worker over who confirmed that price tag I saw was in fact the discounted price for $80. Checked my wallet, didn't have $80 on me.

Walked the property sulking for a few minutes checked out the Marigolds @sorce recommended (really cute little flowers by the way) and then spotted another worker, figured why not.

I asked if she was the manager (I already knew she wasnt) she got him for me, I explained I really liked the tree but didn't have $80 cash, only $62.

He says, well I can let you have it for $50 if you agree to buy some of our compost soil for to plant it in also, see he gave me all these tips on how to plant it in the yard cool: yeah sure) and keep on the dryer side of moist.

Needless to say.... now I'm here wondering where do I go from here. I was thinking air layer the top off but don't know for sure, so I'm here...

HELP A BROTHER OUT?!?!! WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO IT NOW!????

 

[Victorim]

Dont know if they air layer well.. but your in luck there`s endless JBP info on here and out there. Good size for the monies.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You bonsai will be one of the branches in the first two whorls of branches at the base of the tree. To turn this landscape material into a bonsai will be a many year long project, at least 7 to 10 years minimum. There is a lot of information in the pine sub-forum.

 

[Victorim]

You bonsai will be one of the branches in the first two whorls of branches at the base of the tree. To turn this landscape material into a bonsai will be a many year long project, at least 7 to 10 years minimum. There is a lot of information in the pine sub-forum.

..was my thoughts but didn't think I had the authority to say it out loud

 

[Joe Shmo]

Just so your aware, that is a "thunderhead" JBP. A cultivar that Monrovia has worked on for landscape purposes. You could air layer nearly every branch on that tree without a problem. They like a more acidic soil than the typical cultivars of JBP, I've propagated hundreds of them. You would be better of to layer a bunch of stock off from the top, and do a hard chop after your first few branches going up. Give a try at making the lower portion into a bonsai (lots of work from the looks of it) then start with the air layers which will probably be bonsai in refinement before the base portion is.

 

[Victorim]

Corrected then. Just don't remember air layering and JBP together. By the way, is Monrovia a big US chain / grower? Keep seeing thoughts pots.

 

[Paradox]

First, is the trunk as big as you would like to have it?
If yes, you can chop the top which is what we would call a sacrifice branch/trunk. Those are allowed to grow so that the trunk gets as big as we would like then when it gets there, it is cut off. I would not do this now though because I think it is the wrong time of year. Perhaps someone a bit more experienced with this can chime in.
If you want the trunk bigger, then leave it and let that trunk grow, being careful that there are no lower branches on it to shade ones below that will be your future tree.
Air layering will most likely not be successful.

Pick a branch below that you would like to form the future tree and put some wire on it and shape it.
Over time, slowly eliminate any octopus branches coming from the same spot, cut one or two a year, but leave any that you feel could make future branches. What we dont want is multiple branches coming from the same spot on the trunk because it promotes a bulge or reverse taper in the trunk.

You can cut the candles of the lower branches that you are developing the future tree from sometime during the last week of June/first week of July. Please look for the threads that describe the best way to do this. There are several on the forums that describe it. I dont have time to retype it here. Cutting candles will promote branch ramification.

Fertilize it well and water when necessary.
Think about possibly repotting it next spring into a better training pot or into the ground to grow out a bigger trunk if thats what you want to do. If you put it into the ground, then at least once a year in the spring, take a shovel and slice down into the root mass about a 10 inches away from the trunk, all around the trunk to keep the roots short.
If you repot, dont cut candles that year.

Good luck

 

[Joe Shmo]

Corrected then. Just don't remember air layering and JBP together. By the way, is Monrovia a big US chain / grower? Keep seeing thoughts pots.

Monrovia is the BIGGEST US grower. Possibly the largest in all of north america

 

[Adair M]

Unfortunately, Thunderhead JBP is a poor choice for bonsai. Just look at the caliper, the thickness, of the new shoots. Fat, aren't they?

I know what you're saying, "That's cool! That'll make a good fat trunk in no time!" And that may be true. But later, you're going to want thinner branches and shoots. To show refinement. And Thunderhead will keep on making those fat shoots! And it will never look in proportion.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Monrovia is the BIGGEST US grower. Possibly the largest in all of north america

Not only is Monrovia big, but they deal in a lot of premium cultivars and rare plants and trees. Big landscape specimens, etc. They have their own branded nursery pots so if you buy a Monrovia tree it comes in a green pot with their brand name wrapped around it.

Drool factor x10

 

[Johnathan]

Thanks for the responses everyone. Yall rock!

So I cut the pot down and took a couple pics of the base since thats what the consensus seems to be where the magic will happen.

So since this is my first JBP, my 2 main goals are survival and getting as many trees from this as possible.

Are you guys saying I should try to air layer these branches at the bottom or should I air layer the top 1/2 of the tree for future air layers and do work at the base?

 

[Johnathan]

Unfortunately, Thunderhead JBP is a poor choice for bonsai. Just look at the caliper, the thickness, of the new shoots. Fat, aren't they?

I know what you're saying, "That's cool! That'll make a good fat trunk in no time!" And that may be true. But later, you're going to want thinner branches and shoots. To show refinement. And Thunderhead will keep on making those fat shoots! And it will never look in proportion.

Ahhh this stings!! But I know its all truth. So are you saying I should strive for the larger end of bonsai or it'll never look quite right and should be planted in the backyard for landscape?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

And it will never look in proportion.

I hear what you are saying and I somewhat agree with you. It is certainly a fatty. However I have never seen one that has been cultivated for bonsai and instead just these landscape trees with all the energy focused on a few branches. If you look closely at the OP's tree you can see a few candles that are thinner... perhaps if the energy were more balanced they could all be that way? I have no idea...

But here is the problem. This year's candles on this tree are already open. Too late for candle pruning. Personally I would cut all the candles 50%, and lop the top off, and see where I was come next spring.

 

[Johnathan]

Not only is Monrovia big, but they deal in a lot of premium cultivars and rare plants and trees. Big landscape specimens, etc. They have their own branded nursery pots so if you buy a Monrovia tree it comes in a green pot with their brand name wrapped around it.

Drool factor x10

Ha! As I was cutting the pot down I saw their brand on the pot and thought man @Joe Shmo was spot on!

 

[Adair M]

I hear what you are saying and I somewhat agree with you. It is certainly a fatty. However I have never seen one that has been cultivated for bonsai and instead just these landscape trees with all the energy focused on a few branches. If you look closely at the OP's tree you can see a few candles that are thinner... perhaps if the energy were more balanced they could all be that way? I have no idea...

But here is the problem. This year's candles on this tree are already open. Too late for candle pruning. Personally I would cut all the candles 50%, and lop the top off, and see where I was come next spring.

Too late for candle pruning? As in decandling?

I don't think so! In fact, that would be a good experiment! Decandle it, and see what the summer candle/shoots look like. If they're really fat, I would pass on this cultivar as a bonsai.

 

[discusmike]

I believe the big issue with thunderhead is very long needles,but training can help that issue a bit

 

[VAFisher]

I have 3 of these planted in my back yard / poor man's Japanese garden. They make cool looking landscape trees for that purpose. I never thought of using them for bonsai. I'll be interested to see if it works out.

 

[Adair M]

I believe the big issue with thunderhead is very long needles,but training can help that issue a bit

Needle length of any JBP is easily controlled by properly decandling.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

So what's your plan?
Are you going to put it in the ground and work it there? Or get some kind of large grow box? Or something different?

 

[Johnathan]

So what's your plan?
Are you going to put it in the ground and work it there? Or get some kind of large grow box? Or something different?

Read and watch videos lol strive for optimal health.

I honestly have no clue and due to planning a move within the next year to year and a half I'm really not sure.

Leaning towards slip-potting into a bigger container, leaving that bottom area alone until my knowledge and comfort level gap narrows a bit lol and possible air layer on a few of the smaller branches at the top as mentioned by @Joe Shmo