Should I pull it up in 10yrs, 15yrs, or 20yrs

[Pitoon]

So I cut down 3 trees over the past weekend to get some sunlight in where I was planning to plant this Ann Magnolia. I got this plant as a cutting abour 2yrs ago, and it was thinner than a pencil. This year it finally gave me some flowers.....unfortunately the squirrels got them before I could enjoy them.

I had some tiles ready for this planting. I dug out the hole and laid out the tiles. Mixed the bottom layer with the fill dirt and pine bark mulch. Then I filled the hole flush to the ground.

I'm looking forward in growing this one out in the ground, and it should be really easy to pull it up when the time comes.

 

[AaronThomas]

Perfect hole....er.....square!

 

[j evans]

I think the lockdown is getting to him.
Nice Work!

 

[Forsoothe!]

I prefer to grow in a pot the size and shape I want to finish at, in the ground for two, but not three, growing seasons. The container contains the growth pretty much the first year and in the second year lots of big roots will escape through the drain holes. I take it up in the following spring, trim all the big roots outside the pot, inside the pot, and reduce what's inside the pot to suit along with the canopy, and repeat for as many cycles as you can stand. When the tree is ready for a finished pot, the roots are approximately that shape. A third season of growth is a mess with too many heavy roots inside the pot and the canopy loses any fineness it may have had. The third year in a row makes more problems than it's worth.

 

[barrosinc]

the square root!

 

[Shibui]

A third season of growth is a mess with too many heavy roots inside the pot

For many species I agree. Even planted in the ground as this tree is you will find that a couple of roots will take off at the expense of the others. Not only hard to dig but not really good nebari. I have taken to digging trident maples every year and root pruning severely each time. I doubt I loose much growth but more than make up for that in better trees with better roots.
Slower growing species like JM and elm are left max 2 years at a time before gig, prune and root prune then replant if required.
Really slow ones like pines and junipers can be left in the ground for 5-7 years at a time. They don't seem to develop really thick roots and are much easier to dig even after some years in the ground.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Magnolia, often are slow growing. Or slower than perhaps a trident maple. You should watch the growth of the tree. when size has increased by maybe 2 or 3 feet in all directions, you should dig it up and work the roots, selecting and arranging the good roots, pruning off overly fat and or overly deep roots. I would suspect every 2 to 5 years this will need to be dug up. It depends on what growth you actually get. You have a longer growing season than I do, so you might need to dig in 2 or 3 years, rather than 5 years. Leave it too long, and you will never get it out of the ground.

 

[sorce]

That's some clay huh?

I fear a swimming pool.

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

I think the lockdown is getting to him.
Nice Work!

Lol, actually I dug the hole to fit the tiles (4 sqft). I was trying to be as neat as possible. Where I planted the magnolia is on top of a small hill. I didn't want to see a mess every time it rains.

I prefer to grow in a pot the size and shape I want to finish at, in the ground for two, but not three, growing seasons. The container contains the growth pretty much the first year and in the second year lots of big roots will escape through the drain holes. I take it up in the following spring, trim all the big roots outside the pot, inside the pot, and reduce what's inside the pot to suit along with the canopy, and repeat for as many cycles as you can stand. When the tree is ready for a finished pot, the roots are approximately that shape. A third season of growth is a mess with too many heavy roots inside the pot and the canopy loses any fineness it may have had. The third year in a row makes more problems than it's worth.

I grow my Japanese maples in 7gal shorts and let the roots escape. Earlier this year I arranged some roots on some of the maples.
These are Mikawa yatsabusa cultivar....

That's some clay huh?

I fear a swimming pool.

Sorce

All sand actually. I'm about 5mins from the Chesapeake Bay. This area was all underwater during the prehistoric times. I need to dig down a while before I hit some clay.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I prefer to grow in a pot the size and shape I want to finish at, in the ground for two, but not three, growing seasons. The container contains the growth pretty much the first year and in the second year lots of big roots will escape through the drain holes. I take it up in the following spring, trim all the big roots outside the pot, inside the pot, and reduce what's inside the pot to suit along with the canopy, and repeat for as many cycles as you can stand. When the tree is ready for a finished pot, the roots are approximately that shape. A third season of growth is a mess with too many heavy roots inside the pot and the canopy loses any fineness it may have had. The third year in a row makes more problems than it's worth.

And everything is species dependent.

 

[sorce]

sand

Damn! That's some orderly sand!

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

Damn! That's some orderly sand!

Sorce

You know i'm about 5mins from the start of the Calvert Cliffs. At the base of these cliffs is prehistoric clay, we go fossil hunting along the cliffs all the time. There's clay balls and boulders all along the shore. Every time we go, I've thought about collecting some to dry it out, crush and sift it, and then rehydrate to the powder back to usable clay body. My only question would be at what temperature would it vitrify at? I still don't have my kiln up and running yet, but when I do I will try it out and see.

 

[sorce]

You know i'm about 5mins from the start of the Calvert Cliffs. At the base of these cliffs is prehistoric clay, we go fossil hunting along the cliffs all the time. There's clay balls and boulders all along the shore. Every time we go, I've thought about collecting some to dry it out, crush and sift it, and then rehydrate to the powder back to usable clay body. My only question would be at what temperature would it vitrify at? I still don't have my kiln up and running yet, but when I do I will try it out and see.

Sweeeeet!

I was hoping we could get into some kind of conversation like this!

Seems it is well known enough for someone to have some info on possible firing temps.

Marlboro Clay

www.mgs.md.gov

I recently read a thread elsewhere that had information about samples from clay that were sent for analysis. Very interesting. I don't know how one would go about getting this analysis, or what it costs, if anything, but it could be highly useful in scientifically calculating possible starting points, from where we must always test.

Without that, there is other stuff that may allow you insight into where to begin.

My most abundant local clay, is sedimentary, brought here from elsewhere in glaciers, so it is very fine, low firing, and so uniform in particle size, that it likely has a very small window between vitreous and melted.

There are more deposits on the east coast of Primary Clays, or mixes closer to primary sources, that allow for firing to cone 10, directly from the ground in places, like whichever Carolina has all them potters, so you might get lucky straight away, or have the opposite problem I do. You may have to lower the firing temperature, especially if cone 6ing.

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

Sweeeeet!

I was hoping we could get into some kind of conversation like this!

Seems it is well known enough for someone to have some info on possible firing temps.

Marlboro Clay

www.mgs.md.gov

I recently read a thread elsewhere that had information about samples from clay that were sent for analysis. Very interesting. I don't know how one would go about getting this analysis, or what it costs, if anything, but it could be highly useful in scientifically calculating possible starting points, from where we must always test.

Without that, there is other stuff that may allow you insight into where to begin.

My most abundant local clay, is sedimentary, brought here from elsewhere in glaciers, so it is very fine, low firing, and so uniform in particle size, that it likely has a very small window between vitreous and melted.

There are more deposits on the east coast of Primary Clays, or mixes closer to primary sources, that allow for firing to cone 10, directly from the ground in places, like whichever Carolina has all them potters, so you might get lucky straight away, or have the opposite problem I do. You may have to lower the firing temperature, especially if cone 6ing.

Sorce

NICE! Upper Malboro is about a 25-30min ride from me it's not far off from the Patuxent river. I just might have to do a ride one of these days to find that spot where I can get a couple buckets full of clay. The clay off the cliffs have fossilized shellfish within it. Not sure how that would affect the clay body during firing. If you want, when I find that spot I can grab some clay for you to play with as well.

I guess the best way to figure out what temp is to fire a tile starting at cone 6 and work up from there till it melts. Only issue is that my kiln maxes to cone 8. I think probably making a small makeshift gas kiln would do the job.

 

[sorce]

small makeshift gas kiln

Bro!

My big gasn takes 10-12 to fire and the same to cool, so I need a good 2 rain free days to fire.
That hasn't happened.

So I fired my little body Raku joint, hoping to hit 6.


It went a perfect 200F/hr, for 8hours without much change besides putting the damper in after while, and closing the peeps, which are to the left bottom panel, in the wind.
Stupid easy setup. Damn near set and forget. I was able to unload it the same night!

Bought to go pull that from it's 24hour bath right now.

The cup to the right is a wicked body, reclaim and River Clay, but it is quite porous still. It's 3 cone 10's a cone9 and a cone 6, with the iron rich River Clay and pebblitos, so Cone 8 should get it right.

Too....I fired the Raku joint on blast for 2 4hour sessions and still have gas, so you should be able to fire this little body on a BBQ tank twice, though I'd couple 2 just in case.

I wonder if the clay under that sand ain't all you need!
Gotta be careful of any lime, best to seive it out. There is a field test you can use of you can get hydrochloric acid.
You may be able to wash it out?
I know you can wash out fluxes, potash..

This gas realm is so freeing!

And during lockdown...nobody cares what anyone is up to in the yard! We're all going Crazy!

Sorce

 

[Pitoon]

Bro!

My big gasn takes 10-12 to fire and the same to cool, so I need a good 2 rain free days to fire.
That hasn't happened.

So I fired my little body Raku joint, hoping to hit 6.
View attachment 305282

It went a perfect 200F/hr, for 8hours without much change besides putting the damper in after while, and closing the peeps, which are to the left bottom panel, in the wind.
Stupid easy setup. Damn near set and forget. I was able to unload it the same night!
View attachment 305283
Bought to go pull that from it's 24hour bath right now.

The cup to the right is a wicked body, reclaim and River Clay, but it is quite porous still. It's 3 cone 10's a cone9 and a cone 6, with the iron rich River Clay and pebblitos, so Cone 8 should get it right.

Too....I fired the Raku joint on blast for 2 4hour sessions and still have gas, so you should be able to fire this little body on a BBQ tank twice, though I'd couple 2 just in case.

I wonder if the clay under that sand ain't all you need!
Gotta be careful of any lime, best to seive it out. There is a field test you can use of you can get hydrochloric acid.
You may be able to wash it out?
I know you can wash out fluxes, potash..

This gas realm is so freeing!

And during lockdown...nobody cares what anyone is up to in the yard! We're all going Crazy!

Sorce

Where did you get your thermocouple from? I've been debating inside to convert my electric kiln to gas and be done with it. Just to get the electric in the garage will be a pain. With gas I would have more options, its just no turning back once you do the conversion.

 

[sorce]

thermocouple

Amazon.
I don't like it.
The battery has to be removed or it drains, even off. This may be due to how I stored it, but when there is a concern of people burning themselves on a hot kiln, storing this "properly" is a distant second concern. Till you go to fire again.

Notes....I put it too far in and melted the wires, now it has to be tied down to not move, I have to resolder it.

Takes some getting used to, I forgot to account for it already, and ended up hitting a pot with it.

There is one with 4 inputs for like $40 I want to try, can't find the link, but that's pretty dope. You can measure the whole kiln at the same time.
Of course, it's x4 the $ for probes, but the insight is worth it ImO.
Of course, if we can't make the kiln heat where we need, it will only tell us we are failing!

What size is your kiln?

I think this propane firing is costing me $20 per firing, as opposed to $10 electric. But I never have to replace elements.

The design I made my big one with 23x27, has a plan for the one larger. 28x32
Simon Leach fires a 17x23 on one weed burner to cone 10 with an internal chimney, but I think a better design may be imagined on the side like this little one. Since firing a larger rectangle is possible like that, or bonsai pots In general.

I almost made mine "Mobile". Bad idea, it would have fallen apart already. Though with some good casters and a less hazardous in and out, mobile is possible.

All this to say...

Good draft is imperative. Good design will allow the control to not fail. Redundant dampers. More draft than necessary. Notes.

Truth truth....

I smile at how easy it is to fire the Big one.
That design is perfect.

When I got the little one to cone 6 temps with hardly a thought, I realized how a good draft does all the work for you. I reckon it as simple as making the out hole bigger than the in hole! While being able to plug the out hole!

Speaking of plugging the out hole!

Tree? What tree? Lol! Sorry for that. But I can't wait to see you firing gas!

Sorce