Shohin trident ? For Smoke

[Adair M]

Shot after a little light trimming...I think the second right pad needs to extend a bit for balance, and I may need to turn it just a touch counter-clockwise to slightly neutralize the strong leftward movement.
View attachment 307555

Great looking tree, Brian!

Hmmm...

I’m wondering if It’s time for something like this:

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Great looking tree, Brian!

Hmmm...

I’m wondering if It’s time for something like this:

I’ve considered it, but I do like having a little directionality to work with in a Shohin display. The tree is only 6” tall, so the close-up photo is a little deceiving, as that long neck is really only 1/2“ long! Turning the tree slightly at the next repotting will shorten it visually, and still offer a little left movement.

otherwise we’re talking about going from this:

to this:

which may a bit boring.

 

[JudyB]

I’ve considered it, but I do like having a little directionality to work with in a Shohin display. The tree is only 6” tall, so the close-up photo is a little deceiving, as that long neck is really only 1/2“ long! Turning the tree slightly at the next repotting will shorten it visually, and still offer a little left movement.

otherwise we’re talking about going from this:
View attachment 307563
to this:
View attachment 307564
which may a bit boring.

Great visual explanation. I like the movement the way it is actually anyway. A little turn and viola! Looks great in that pot...

 

[TomB]

That's looking really good.
Do you have any recent photos of the back of the tree?
I'd be interested to see how well the scar has healed (I've got some little maples that have had big chops at the back so it would be good to see how you've dealt with it).

 

[Adair M]

I’ve considered it, but I do like having a little directionality to work with in a Shohin display. The tree is only 6” tall, so the close-up photo is a little deceiving, as that long neck is really only 1/2“ long! Turning the tree slightly at the next repotting will shorten it visually, and still offer a little left movement.

otherwise we’re talking about going from this:
View attachment 307563
to this:
View attachment 307564
which may a bit boring.

It wouldn’t look like the second image very long.

I agree that it would look fairly “uninteresting” while in leaf. But the winter image, with the taper you’ve created, would be spectacular.

I prefer seeing deciduous trees in their winter silohette images. (With a few exceptions: Japanese maples with their spring and fall colors are breathtaking!). But tridents, at least for me, look best bare.

I am in no way taking anything away from what you’ve done with this tree. It’s spectacular! Don’t you wish you had a dozen?

 

[james]

Very nice tree.
Interesting suggestion from Adair, which I think comes from the strong leftward movement of the apex.

Alternate idea:
What would you think of increasing the length of the lowest left branch, such that it would extend leftward beyond the apex? If the length would be roughly doubled, you would have a pleasing triangular profile, still maintain the leftward movement and add a wide canopy at the base, which often is pleasing with maple? It won't take away from the girth of the base, which will still be clearly visible.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

That's looking really good.
Do you have any recent photos of the back of the tree?
I'd be interested to see how well the scar has healed (I've got some little maples that have had big chops at the back so it would be good to see how you've dealt with it).

Sumo Shohin trident winter work

Late Winter, in advance of repotting it into a smaller container, I wanted to get a little maintenance work completed. The cut at the back of the tree is not healing well, and needs to be cleaned u…

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

 

[TomB]

Sumo Shohin trident winter work

Late Winter, in advance of repotting it into a smaller container, I wanted to get a little maintenance work completed. The cut at the back of the tree is not healing well, and needs to be cleaned u…

nebaribonsai.wordpress.com

Thanks. I can show you worse than that
Joking aside it’s genuinely useful to see what’s behind the scenes.
Nice neat job on the cleanup.

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Wow! Looks like that tree has been through a lot.
sorry about the scale.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Wow! Looks like that tree has been through a lot.
sorry about the scale.

It has been a long road for this tree. I bought a white pine from Gary Wood in ’99 or ‘00 that didn’t survive. He had several from that group which did not, and he replaced it with my ‘Chishio Improved’ J Maple and this little trident back in 2002. I’ve been trying my best to kill it for almost 20 years now!

 

[Drew]

Great tree @Brian Van Fleet ! whats the reasoning behind putting the cut paste over the whole surface of the epoxy putty?

 

[ConorDash]

I'd not seen this thread before, was a good read. I would like to do this one day... I know that for a project like this, the best time to have started it, was 10 years ago..

Can I ask, something Smoke brought up a few pages back, fitting it in to such a small pot (which looks great btw, of course), is there anything you are doing differently or any concerns about the small confined space, causing health issues or weakening the tree?
I have an Wych elm that is fit in to a small pot, very wedged (so much so, that upon repoting it, I broke the DAMN POT! Also found out that my super glue dries white...). Not to mention the watering needs, but I do have concerns over the small root space causing health issues.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Can I ask, something Smoke brought up a few pages back, fitting it in to such a small pot (which looks great btw, of course), is there anything you are doing differently or any concerns about the small confined space, causing health issues or weakening the tree?

Sure, you’re referring to this post:

If this tree is to look in scale in the correct pot, it will have to be ground layered. That upper picture is not going to fit in the appropriate pot the way it is.

If you do "stuff" it into a small pot, it will never be strong.

Which stuck with me for a while too. However, I had been root-pruning this tree for several years preparing it for a smaller pot. By the time I repotted it this spring, I only had to cut one heavy root to fit the pot. In effect, it was being ground layered for years leading up to this, so the radial nebari has fine roots coming off each thicker root. Ground layering it again, in my opinion would have been risky due to the rotted back and no guarantee of replicating the existing radial spread. It would have also destroyed the good nebari and base I spent 15 years growing.


The tree is growing plenty strong, and I am happy with the results so far.

You asked what I could do differently, here is a big one. Pots come in a huge variety of sizes, yes, but there are “standard” sizes that tend to be available, and you should begin with the final pot size in mind. This Ikkou pot took a very long time to find, and even then, I wasn’t 100% sure it would work until I actually started repotting. It is 7 3/8” wide. There are plenty of choices in the 6-6.5” range, and in the 10-12” range, but this tree was in a bit of a no-man’s-land.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Great tree @Brian Van Fleet ! whats the reasoning behind putting the cut paste over the whole surface of the epoxy putty?

The callus seems to grow better against/under the paste, and it seals out the moisture which I don’t want getting between the epoxy putty and the wood.

 

[ConorDash]

Sure, you’re referring to this post:

Which stuck with me for a while too. However, I had been root-pruning this tree for several years preparing it for a smaller pot. By the time I repotted it this spring, I only had to cut one heavy root to fit the pot. In effect, it was being ground layered for years leading up to this, so the radial nebari has fine roots coming off each thicker root. Ground layering it again, in my opinion would have been risky due to the rotted back and no guarantee of replicating the existing radial spread. It would have also destroyed the good nebari and base I spent 15 years growing.
View attachment 308189

The tree is growing plenty strong, and I am happy with the results so far.

You asked what I could do differently, here is a big one. Pots come in a huge variety of sizes, yes, but there are “standard” sizes that tend to be available, and you should begin with the final pot size in mind. This Ikkou pot took a very long time to find, and even then, I wasn’t 100% sure it would work until I actually started repotting. It is 7 3/8” wide. There are plenty of choices in the 6-6.5” range, and in the 10-12” range, but this tree was in a bit of a no-man’s-land.

Very good info, thank you.

Yes, back a few pages I saw the roots and how they have developed off of the large nebari. Its completely, and utterly, to die for.

Yes, that post from Smokes, but not the ground layer suggestion. If it would mean risking that nebari which you have built, I wouldn't even want to think about it. I can understand a set back now = better image in future but sometimes, its not worth it.
From my Elm's perspective, it could stand to go in a slightly bigger pot anyway.. good to know it can still remain healthy though.

Killer tree.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

How is the sumo looking?

Its over on this thread now...and here is a recent shot.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

About peak fall color.

 

[badatusernames]

holy crap

I need to get some tridents to plant in the ground

 

[bwaynef]

Every now and then I re-read an old thread and re-learn something that I have forgotten I don't work with maples much because I have such difficulty keeping them alive here is SoCal, but I won't be here all my life

Hey, bN.

 

[Stella]

This is such an incredible thread. thanx so much. I have learned a few thing now reading through this one.