Shishigashira (extreme) raw material

[Pitoon]

@JonW thanks for the comment.
Absolutely spot on.

Now comes another question tho.. If root pruning stimulates the formation of new feeding roots, what's with the combo root pruning and layering (of course talking spring time) ?
Should the growth of the new root system take off at an improved rate, too?

If you air layer, don't cut the roots and don't prune the top. Just remove the air layer from the mother plant when there's enough roots to keep it alive. Once you separate the air layer and plant it in the ground or substrate the tree will balance itself. There may be die back to a point where the tree can maintain itself with the current root system, this is natural. Don't mess with the plant or roots for a year, just prune back any dead portions to prevent disease.

Most individuals just don't have the patience to deal with it, and want to start messing with the plant immediately. That's when the plant stresses even more and dies.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

They are not really an easy JM to air layer. The branches are extremely brittle and seem to die back more easily than other JM.

Out of about 20 shishigashira air layers from Spring 2020 (first pic), only 1 did not work for me. The rest are doing well and continue to push new growth post-separation; I have no concerns about them (second pic).

I think both practices mentioned below will help avoid issues with 'extremely brittle' branches that you are experiencing:

- I try to take thicker branches than the ones in your images

- I also make sure to perform air layers at junctions of at least 2 and preferably 3 branches. In my experience (based purely on observation, which may just be a coincidence) this helps encourage 360-degree root growth. I also like having the option of using the extra trunks as sacrifice branches, or potentially using them in a multi-trunk style bonsai

 

[Pitoon]

Out of about 20 shishigashira air layers from Spring 2020 (first pic), only 1 did not work for me. The rest are doing well and continue to push new growth post-separation; I have no concerns about them (second pic).

I think both practices mentioned below will help avoid issues with 'extremely brittle' branches that you are experiencing:

- I try to take thicker branches than the ones in your images

- I also make sure to perform air layers at junctions of at least 2 and preferably 3 branches. In my experience (based purely on observation, which may just be a coincidence) this helps encourage 360-degree root growth. I also like having the option of using the extra trunks as sacrifice branches, or potentially using them in a multi-trunk style bonsai

I'm sure taking air layers off thicker branches would definitely help. I tend to take my air layers off 1st year flush growth that has hardened off. But the air layers I did that are in the pictures I uploaded are 2yr growth. I really don't like taking air layers from thicker branches lower on the tree as it rapes the mother plant after you separate. Then the mother plant has a while catch up before you can start on air layers again. By taking first flush that has harden off you have a constant source for air layers.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.......

 

[Mapleminx]

Hi everyone.
Was walking through the local garden center a few days ago with the intention to buy some insulating material to protect my plants' roots during fall.
I stumbled in this lonely Shishigashira that was on sale for less than 20€ so I said, why not
The amount of possibilities due to low branching and the diameter of the trunk (1 meter tall, 3cm of d) turned it for my unexperienced eyes into a reasonable deal (I've spent much more on weaker and lesser developed maples on Maillot).

Now, my newbie eye tells me I have 2 'possible fronts' (A, B) :

A View attachment 336431

BView attachment 336437

Other views
View attachment 336433View attachment 336434View attachment 336435View attachment 336436


Of course, I'll need to repot it next March/April 'cause I can't even see the nabari, due to the number of superficial roots and how deep it was planted, and second because I'd like to grow it in a better draining soil.

My questions to you are various..
1. What front? I'd probably go with B as of now.

Then, about those 2 low branches: one will have to go I suppose, as they're competing for the same spot and leaving them both would possibly create visible inverse taper.
Between those, I'd opt to get rid of the bottom one and probably guy wire the other into a slightly steeper angle.
The latter also has some better movement and start of ramification.
(correct me if it ain't make no sense)
View attachment 336440

Next is: should I clip the main trunk (or even air layer it) and make a new leader of the only left (slightly wired) branch?
I recon Mach had some troubles with having Shishigashiras backbudding.
Shall I still go for the Clip and Grow or can I let the main trunk grow taller and still end up with a decent taper, sometime before retirement? (I'm 28)lol

Other option I see is: shouldn't I keep the early ramification instead, and cut it all back to increase branching/future movement? Or would that leave me with 0 lower taper?

View attachment 336441

Thanks in advance for any consideration on the matter.
I wish ya'll a good Sunday.

Federico

I’m so jelly. I rarely come across a bargain like that!

Cute tree with a lot of different avenues to explore, curious how it will look through the years

 

[Hoyonokuma]

I’m so jelly. I rarely come across a bargain like that!

Cute tree with a lot of different avenues to explore, curious how it will look through the years

I had already reached full capacity but just couldn't back off..

My first intention would be to start from the bottom up, hence the roots.
Guess I'll end up layering it first (march/april 2021), with the mere goal to start a new decent nabari. Propagation is a page I will only be able to open in a few years from now.
Then comes the ebihara (spring 2022) and then who knows.. Not even sure if the tree is even alive by then, but one has to start from somewhere

 

[Carol 83]

I had already reached full capacity but just couldn't back off..

Been there, done that.

 

[Davidlpf]

- I have several 3-year-old shishigashira air layers that are growing well, and i would say they are as vigorous as my grafted parent plants.

- Air layering is the method of propagation recommended by Meriggioli for shishigashira

- The trunk of older shishigashira has unique striations and, thanks to that, I think it is often easier to tell whether older specimens in Japan are grafted or not. At least that's how i'm performing my forensic analysis. I might be completely wrong about this! It's pure speculation and just something i've noticed while studying development procedures.

I think I have spotted in older specimens from Japan all 3 variations we would expect:

1 - shishigashira grafted onto non-shishigashira roots
2 - shishigashira on its own roots
3 - shishigashira on its own roots, with non-shishigashira root grafts

The attached pictures show, i think, all 3 variations in that order.

(All pictures stolen from the web I've lost track of where they all came from).

i'm also curious about what @William N. Valavanis thinks! I know he and Harvey Carapella have older specimens that are grafted, but I don't know if he has experience with non-grafted specimens.

@Canada Bonsai take a look to that click,click

Maybe is not grafted, only too much brushed instead!

Cheers

 

[Maiden69]

Go look at Peter Chan's Heron YouTube channel... he has 100's if not more shishigashiras on their own roots. I think it is like most JM, that are grafted because they tend to have weaker roots. I was looking at Mr Maple website, as he comes up in my feeds quite often and I think almost every single tree they sale is grafted.

 

[Hoyonokuma]

Well.. Your comments come just spot on.
I ground layered it 3 hours ago lol
Idk if it will do fine.. It's my very first attempt to do something else than pruning on a plant

Only thing I know is that I needed to make that step. Whether it will work or not, I've gained 1 more gram of experience.

It might be a bit high tbh. We'll see.

I didn't attempt any air layer as I really don't have the space yet.
If I'm able to move out before July I could attempt a few cuttings, but I'm not gonna plan too far ahead. It's already a big thing if if survives

 

[Hoyonokuma]

@Maiden69
Yeah I know Mr Chan. He's actually the very first known professional I've got to watch as I started buying trees last july.
I have a lot of sympathy for the man, I just don't find him as informative or detailed as some others.

I recently found a garden center close to where I live which has quite a few cultivars on their own roots but now that Im thinking about it , I don't recall to have seen any plain JM around.
If there was any, it got suffocated by the ocean of AP Trompenburg

 

[Maiden69]

I would have placed the wire right against the cut to make the roots go out more horizontally and start increasing the flare at the base.

 

[Maiden69]

@Maiden69
Yeah I know Mr Chan. He's actually the very first known professional I've got to watch as I started buying trees last july.
I have a lot of sympathy for the man, I just don't find him as informative or detailed as some others.

That's the same way I feel. I still watch some of his videos as I find him peacefully appealing...

The main thing for him is to make bonsai reach people that thought they couldn't do it... while most of the people that get into bonsai will never be able to get to have refined bonsais, at least the nature of the hobby will bring some sort of naturality in this technical and digital world.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

@Davidlpf thanks for those pictures! If you closely at close-up photo you shared, it looks like there is a V-shop line that could be a graft. Only the right-side line of the 'V' is on the line where i initially thought the graft could be. in other words, i have no idea what's going on LOL

I've sent all those pictures to Bjorn a while ago. In that email i was also asking him about grafted arakawas appearing in high-level exhibitions. He mentioned that he would eventually do a segment in BonsaiU on the topic. I'm looking forward to it, as this is one of my favourite topics to learn and think about.

 

[Hoyonokuma]

I would have placed the wire right against the cut to make the roots go out more horizontally and start increasing the flare at the base.

I could eventually move it a bit further up tomorrow.. I thought, if i have to saw it off in a few months (latest next year) I'd have to rearrange the roots anyway then, right? This way I'd also gain 1 more inch to work with as the first branch ended being pretty close to the grafting point

 

[Hoyonokuma]

Small update.. I Checked the layer today and it looks like callousing over.
Meriggioli would probably advise to cut further up and try anew but I don't have much space because of the low branch (which I would like to flash-cut soon or layer next year).
Other option might be to scrap the cambrium again, clean the upper cut and place some more rooting clonex on top.


Idk whether I didnt remove enough tissue, or if it stayed too humid for too long (we almost had rain, everyday until one week ago).
Can't hide my lack of experience must have played a roled in this failure so far.

Looking forward to reading your takes.

 

[MACH5]

Small update.. I Checked the layer today and it looks like callousing over.
Meriggioli would probably advise to cut further up and try anew but I don't have much space because of the low branch (which I would like to flash-cut soon or layer next year).
Other option might be to scrap the cambrium again, clean the upper cut and place some more rooting clonex on top.
View attachment 378699

Idk whether I didnt remove enough tissue, or if it stayed too humid for too long (we almost had rain, everyday until one week ago).
Can't hide my lack of experience must have played a roled in this failure so far.

Looking forward to reading your takes.

It's ok. Happens to even the most experienced. Recut area and give it another shot. Shishis can be air layered readily. Make sure you scrape all the live tissue off with a clean sharp knife.


I am working at the moment on a shishigashira forest. Original material was a large three-trunk grouping from Brussells. Not great material but I saw potential. I resolved to recompose the entire thing and create possibly a seven tree forest by air layering. No issues with the air layers and all trees seem to grow well on their own roots exhibiting excellent color and overall health and vigor. Next spring all trees will be brought together into hopefully a better version of what it was.

So @Canada Bonsai similar experience to yours although I have not done as many layers as you did.

 

[SeanS]

Small update.. I Checked the layer today and it looks like callousing over.
Meriggioli would probably advise to cut further up and try anew but I don't have much space because of the low branch (which I would like to flash-cut soon or layer next year).
Other option might be to scrap the cambrium again, clean the upper cut and place some more rooting clonex on top.
View attachment 378699

Idk whether I didnt remove enough tissue, or if it stayed too humid for too long (we almost had rain, everyday until one week ago).
Can't hide my lack of experience must have played a roled in this failure so far.

Looking forward to reading your takes.

What’s that twine around the trunk? It’s meant to callous like that, the roots grow from the callous. Unless you’re saying there’s a section not in the photo that has actually bridged right over the gap and over the 3 layers of wire, which would be a miracle.

 

[Hoyonokuma]

What’s that twine around the trunk? It’s meant to callous like that, the roots grow from the callous. Unless you’re saying there’s a section not in the photo that has actually bridged right over the gap and over the 3 layers of wire, which would be a miracle.

The twine is just something I've used to keep the sphagnum in place around the cut (which btw looks exactly the same all around the circumference, hence this lone update pic posted).

 

[Hoyonokuma]

It's ok. Happens to even the most experienced. Recut area and give it another shot. Shishis can be air layered readily. Make sure you scrape all the live tissue off with a clean sharp knife.


I am working at the moment on a shishigashira forest. Original material was a large three-trunk grouping from Brussells. Not great material but I saw potential. I resolved to recompose the entire thing and create possibly a seven tree forest by air layering. No issues with the air layers and all trees seem to grow well on their own roots exhibiting excellent color and overall health and vigor. Next spring all trees will be brought together into hopefully a better version of what it was.

Thanks Serg!
Will definitely scrap the tissue once more during the weekend.
Is it just that tho, or should I bother to recut the upper part, including the callous too?

I'll also probably look for something in shape of a ring to place underneath the cut, if any root decides to come out anytime soon

Your forest sounds like a very interest peoject! Can't wait to see it shining!

 

[MACH5]

Thanks Serg!
Will definitely scrap the tissue once more during the weekend.
Is it just that tho, or should I bother to recut the upper part, including the callous too?

I'll also probably look for something in shape of a ring to place underneath the cut, if any root decides to come out anytime soon

Your forest sounds like a very interest peoject! Can't wait to see it shining!

Yes I would clean and recut the entire thing. Basically start over. Although I do agree with Sean that callous tissue is a precursor to roots, I have seen many cases where this happens and the callous just stalls never producing much of anything else. You can maybe wait, hope and see but I have little confidence that it will do much.

Good luck Federico, but again you should be able to air layer shishigashira quite readily.