Dwight
Chumono
Damn Will , will you quit posting those trees that die when I touch them !!!! I really like them. Guess I need to move my arce out this winter and find some pinons.
Scots Pine Progress
- Thread starter grouper52
- Start date
grouper52
Masterpiece
Over the past several seasons I probably pruned the foliage back too severely in the fall trying for uber-short needles the next season - it works, but it took a toll. One main branch and several parts of other main branches died this last year.
These kinds of things don't trouble me much, however, and are often welcome - as in this case. The tree (or "Nature," or however you want to conceptualize it) almost always knows which branches to lose when stressed, and this case is no exception: the look is much improved in my eye, very natural. If I had chosen to jin a few branches, the look would certainly not be as nice as this. The needles are a little longish again, now, however, but I'll just let them grow and get some vigor back this season.
I may refine the image a bit more in the next few months, but I'm about where I want to be with this tree, and may sell it this season or next. I like making something of them, but have little time or inclination to keep them there once they arrive.
Enjoy.
These kinds of things don't trouble me much, however, and are often welcome - as in this case. The tree (or "Nature," or however you want to conceptualize it) almost always knows which branches to lose when stressed, and this case is no exception: the look is much improved in my eye, very natural. If I had chosen to jin a few branches, the look would certainly not be as nice as this. The needles are a little longish again, now, however, but I'll just let them grow and get some vigor back this season.
I may refine the image a bit more in the next few months, but I'm about where I want to be with this tree, and may sell it this season or next. I like making something of them, but have little time or inclination to keep them there once they arrive.
Enjoy.
grouper52
Masterpiece
Over on another forum I posted this update side by side with the tree as I first got it in 2006, and folks seemed to like the comparison (though some may not), so I thought I'd do it here as well.
I think it creates a stark contrast between the Japanese aesthetic (as we see it here in the US) and the "Naturalistic" style. It also shows the effect of baby bending (on now-jinned as well as living branches), emphasis on deadwood, sparse foliage, and other Naturalistic techniques I and others talk about here.
I think it creates a stark contrast between the Japanese aesthetic (as we see it here in the US) and the "Naturalistic" style. It also shows the effect of baby bending (on now-jinned as well as living branches), emphasis on deadwood, sparse foliage, and other Naturalistic techniques I and others talk about here.
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treebeard55
Chumono
I think I see what you mean about the new look being a little more natural. I think it does look more balanced.
Its a shame about that dead branch. Natures choice or not, I think that this tree now needs some serious rethinking. That was a very important branch for the overall design.
Based on the pictures you posted on the first page of this thead, I can't help but wonder if the "right side" of the tree holds some possibilities. Always hard to tell from pics.
Thanks for the update,
Cheers
Based on the pictures you posted on the first page of this thead, I can't help but wonder if the "right side" of the tree holds some possibilities. Always hard to tell from pics.
Thanks for the update,
Cheers
Ang3lfir3
Omono
I was hoping you could elaborate on this some more.... it sounds like you are not pleased with the changes and find the tree less pleasing that before.... might I ask why???
I ask not to debate but to comprehend .... I feel the tree is enhanced with its removal and would like to see it as best I can through your eyes ....
daygan
Chumono
I like the comparison, and I like how it's moved from more of a "cartoon-perfect" tree to it's more natural look now.
Also, what's "baby bending"?
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Oh, daygan, you're in for a treat! If you don't mind Will, can you (or allow me) to post a link to the article over on the site?
There is a terrific article Will posted on another bonsai forum that shows this process in detail. It's a systematic wiring process that creates great age in a tree. And this tree is a wonderful example of what can be achieved in a small amount of time using this method.
There is a terrific article Will posted on another bonsai forum that shows this process in detail. It's a systematic wiring process that creates great age in a tree. And this tree is a wonderful example of what can be achieved in a small amount of time using this method.
grouper52
Masterpiece
That's fine to post that link. Folks might benefit from it. Thanks for asking.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Ok Daygan, here's that link to the article that G52 posted on bonsaisite forums. It's a good one to bookmark!
http://www.bonsaisite.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24581&hl=+baby++bending&fromsearch=1
http://www.bonsaisite.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24581&hl=+baby++bending&fromsearch=1
daygan
Chumono
cool! very good information. I'll have to use this later (like maybe next year) when I start branch development on some of my trees. thanks, Judy! and thanks, grouper52!
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Ang3lfir3
Omono
definitely the best and most thorough explanation of the process .... but then we all knew Will was a great writer too
ghues
Omono
Hi Will - maybe time for a new pot?
Well, I was under the impression that it died and wasn't intentionally removed (as per Groupers explanation in post 22).
That being said, I think there is now a large void on the right side of the tree. The now dead branch played an important role in filling that void, and with its loss the "rhythm" of the alternating branches is now disrupted. I don't think the jin does enough to fill this void, nor does the back branch.
Its always hard to tell from pics though. But looking at the current image, I can't help but wonder if removing the two lowest branches wouldn't improve the tree. But then there is that issue with the graft.
That is basically my humble perspective... now your turn: why do you think the removal of that branch enhances the tree?
Ang3lfir3
Omono
true the branch did die .... and was not intentionally removed .... we often refer to these types of things as "styling opportunities" (make the unintentional feel like a gift)
I see the tree being enchanced by the creation of this empty space... it's not completely empty so we aren't left with a stark jolt.... with the subsequent creation of the additional jins the dead branch begins to make sense.... The empty space creates tension and drama its the sign of a calamity that must have befallen the tree (a large borer... a lightning strike ... maybe an extra hard freeze or killing wind on a branch that grew weak ) ... before the tree had sense of calmness and looking a little "groomed"
This creation of deadwood enhances the aged appearance of the tree ... we see such things in nature readily (at least up here) ... disrupting the look it being so "groomed" also gives us a sense of age... this overly neat (even in the older case of the tree) and obviously kept foliage gives the appearance of a young tree or the look something maintained.... we (by we I mean the group of bonsai ppl I refer to as bonsai bums II ) don't strive for such an appearance in our trees.... while we all have differing ideas of to what extent each tree should be taken we all agree on a few key points (i hope) : 1) the tree should look as appropriately ancient as is possible with the design 2) to achieve the goals of #1 it is often required that deadwood be created 3) the tree should appear natural in form .... 4) the tree must have some feature that sets it apart from others as a "focal point"
this last point is key here .... the other 3 points are met of course ... however it is the 4th point that leads us to see why this tree has dramatically improved ... the large dead branch and drama in that section of the tree gives it a focal point ... a place your eye lands first... since the base of this tree isn't the most amazing in the world the traditional focal point isn't used.... instead you are immediately moved into the crown of the tree to enjoy the detail and care spent creating a gnarled wonderland of branching and deadwood... you are presented with a sense of age .... the tree has a strong sense of movement now and the curve is the trunk is enhanced with a more dramatic sense of grandeur
note too that thinning of the needles and reduction of the foliage has helped with this effect as the lack of lushness in the tree also enhances the appearance of age... and allows us a chance to see the ramification that has been created (what use if awesome ramification if no one can enjoy the results of it?)
hopefullly that sheds some light on why I think the tree has been enhanced ......
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grouper52
Masterpiece
I think you said it well, Eric, and Amkalid I look forward to your reply as well.
The tree, even for a Naturalistic style, would be presented a bit better, a bit more cleaned up, in a show setting - I just thought I'd capture it as it was in all its raw appeal that afternoon. A spiffier image may attract you somewhat more, although I know this basic style does not appeal to everyone - nor should it.
In Dan Robinson's famous 2004 treatise, "Focal Point Bonsai Design," we read: "Heavy emphasis is placed on the sculptural aspects in Focal Point Bonsai Design because of their profound impact on the human eye. No element of a tree has more visual pull than does well carved, bleached deadwood. You may or may not like it, but the eye goes there and works on it; it does produce a focal point! To compliment, support and frame this focal point is the final element in the creation. Branch placement and shape are the key."
To emphasize again, "You may or may not like it." But obviously from your response it has achieved the goal. It is also my guess is that this tree will stay in your mind long after more expected ones have faded, and that some day - if you are fortunate enough to traipse around the wild, high country of the American West - you may someday see an ancient survivor that brings your mind back in some way to this one.
The tree, even for a Naturalistic style, would be presented a bit better, a bit more cleaned up, in a show setting - I just thought I'd capture it as it was in all its raw appeal that afternoon. A spiffier image may attract you somewhat more, although I know this basic style does not appeal to everyone - nor should it.
In Dan Robinson's famous 2004 treatise, "Focal Point Bonsai Design," we read: "Heavy emphasis is placed on the sculptural aspects in Focal Point Bonsai Design because of their profound impact on the human eye. No element of a tree has more visual pull than does well carved, bleached deadwood. You may or may not like it, but the eye goes there and works on it; it does produce a focal point! To compliment, support and frame this focal point is the final element in the creation. Branch placement and shape are the key."
To emphasize again, "You may or may not like it." But obviously from your response it has achieved the goal. It is also my guess is that this tree will stay in your mind long after more expected ones have faded, and that some day - if you are fortunate enough to traipse around the wild, high country of the American West - you may someday see an ancient survivor that brings your mind back in some way to this one.
Stan Kengai
Omono
grouper, I think the tree is now much more striking. It may not be as aesthetically pleasing as the previous more manicured look, but it seems to draw me in and make me want to look deeper. It certainly gives the tree more character, more "life" even, and I want to examine it more closely to uncover its story. Thanks for sharing.
BTW, the japanese would chalk this up as a lesson in "mono no aware", which is a sort of catch phrase for their cultural awareness of fleeting beauty or life's impermanence.
BTW, the japanese would chalk this up as a lesson in "mono no aware", which is a sort of catch phrase for their cultural awareness of fleeting beauty or life's impermanence.
tmmason10
Omono
I like the new image better myself, thanks for sharing Will.
Paulpash
Masterpiece
I like the changes too Have you got plans for the nebari? In the 4th pic of the series in your first post the roots come out at the viewer then run off to the left - like Angel said the base isn't it's 'selling' point and the jins and deadwood above play a part in not keeping the eye at the tree's base for long. I know nebari improvement can be a long process - especially in pines - I was just wondering if you had any plans for reducing these roots in future?
Have you got plans for the nebari? In the 4th pic of the series in your first post the roots come out at the viewer then run off to the left - like Angel said the base isn't it's 'selling' point and the jins and deadwood above play a part in not keeping the eye at the tree's base for long. I know nebari improvement can be a long process - especially in pines - I was just wondering if you had any plans for reducing these roots in future?
grouper52
Masterpiece
I like the changes too
No, not really. Your points about the roots are well taken, but they've never really bothered me that much, and are probably not correctible in my lifetime. I've thrown a number of trees back in the ground for such purposes in recent years, but this is not likely to be one of them.
I'll let the next person take that on, as well as choosing other fronts, further carving out of the reverse taper, Further refinement of the jins, finding just the right pot for it, etc.
