Ryan Neil's Bonsai Mirai

[Alex DeRuiter]

"Ryan claims him to be the best there is period. Why do you think that?"

Weeeellll, maybe because they're kind of in business together? Or am I way off?

Good to see some egos flaring on this. Might produce more decent collected stuff, now if we could only get y'all to battle over who has the most reasonable prices for what they do...

Hahahaha! I guarantee I'm the best in the world at lowering prices. . . .

 

[Ang3lfir3]

The only thing you typed that held some merit is that he is the best at collecting where others have.

that wasn't my point and you know it ... my problem mostly has to do with the amount it self.... WE LEAVE TREES ON PURPOSE!!! there is absolutely NO REASON for one person to come clean out an entire hillside .... as for skill at removing material ... be both know the crazyness that Dan has gone to remove trees ... Hell I have helped smash boulders by hand to get them out

I've seen the material you brought up .... I liked ONE of them... I remember the two other trees in your truck... for $300 each... neither of them should have been collected... they simply didn't have great potential ...mediocre at best.... but when your focus isn't on the art and is more on the $$ ... well anything goes and usually does ...

Dan, Larry and others have collected the same areas for years not because they miss anything ... but because they collect just enough ...

and you are biased ... ur related to him ...

 

[JasonG]

that wasn't my point and you know it ... my problem mostly has to do with the amount it self.... WE LEAVE TREES ON PURPOSE!!! there is absolutely NO REASON for one person to come clean out an entire hillside .... as for skill at removing material ... be both know the crazyness that Dan has gone to remove trees ... Hell I have helped smash boulders by hand to get them out

I've seen the material you brought up .... I liked ONE of them... I remember the two other trees in your truck... for $300 each... neither of them should have been collected... they simply didn't have great potential ...mediocre at best.... but when your focus isn't on the art and is more on the $$ ... well anything goes and usually does ...

Dan, Larry and others have collected the same areas for years not because they miss anything ... but because they collect just enough ...

and you are biased ... ur related to him ...

Those were auction trees.....basically trees to sell cheap and get rid of them. Most people in the NW dont spend money on trees and the ones that do already buy from Randy anyways. Trust me, trees arent collected to be collected, each tree that gets collected there are 500 that dont. And for the record
cord Randy collects in places Dan and Larry have not been to and all private land. Randy and Ryan have more passion for bonsai than anyone you will meet. Its who they are and what Ryan is doing has never been done in America before. Ofcourse if you ever came down you would know this.

 

[JasonG]

that wasn't my point and you know it ... my problem mostly has to do with the amount it self.... WE LEAVE TREES ON PURPOSE!!! there is absolutely NO REASON for one person to come clean out an entire hillside .... as for skill at removing material ... be both know the crazyness that Dan has gone to remove trees ... Hell I have helped smash boulders by hand to get them out

I've seen the material you brought up .... I liked ONE of them... I remember the two other trees in your truck... for $300 each... neither of them should have been collected... they simply didn't have great potential ...mediocre at best.... but when your focus isn't on the art and is more on the $$ ... well anything goes and usually does ...

Dan, Larry and others have collected the same areas for years not because they miss anything ... but because they collect just enough ...

and you are biased ... ur related to him ...

Those were auction trees.....basically trees to sell cheap and get rid of them. Most people in the NW dont spend money on trees and the ones that do already buy from Randy anyways. Trust me, trees arent collected to be collected, each tree that gets collected there are 500 that dont. And for the record
cord Randy collects in places Dan and Larry have not been to and all private land. Randy and Ryan have more passion for bonsai than anyone you will meet. Its who they are and what Ryan is doing has never been done in America before. Ofcourse if you ever came down you would know this.

 

[JasonG]

For the record I am out of bonsai. I have sold over 150 trees and only have about 10 left. Of those 10 I am keeping a couple of larfe decidous trees and thats it. I dont work on treees with Randy or Ryan anymore. We are still friends but I have shifted my priorities for now. I will be back in the Rockies in a f few years rebuilding my collection. For now its all about motox and koi. Not related to either guy

 

[raydomz]

Funny you should say that because Randy has the most reasonable prices I have seen throughout Oregon, washington, california, the web, and tokyo! Unfortunately those are the only places i have the chance to visit but maybe you know some better places. One thing is that ryan probably marks up the prices but oregonbonsai is still the best!

I can attest to this. I've spent a lot of time digging around the internet and old magazines trying to find shops with reasonable prices. I finally found that with Oregon bonsai.
In addition, Randy has been one of the most helpful growers that I have talked to, always willing to answer questions and never once(even while talking about collected material) did I get a sense of ego. Very nice guy.

 

[buddhamonk]

I can attest to this. I've spent a lot of time digging around the internet and old magazines trying to find shops with reasonable prices. I finally found that with Oregon bonsai.
In addition, Randy has been one of the most helpful growers that I have talked to, always willing to answer questions and never once(even while talking about collected material) did I get a sense of ego. Very nice guy.

Completely agree. He's quite humble in real life. The video is obviously scripted and I wouldn't be surprised if the video was made professionally.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

It was actually kind of funny just how much the video was filled with action-shots. Like revolving around Ryan while he was talking to add that extra edge...or how they actually the camera and walked up to Ryan who was getting coffee at a drive-thru...I found it comical. Not saying that in a bad way, really. I just found it funny.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

Well we all have our own opinions ... and that's that .... ain't the world great

I buy trees and I spend money on them ... but its not a pissing match to see who can dump the most $$$ on a tree ... I have more sense than that
great material doesn't have to be expensive and making something expensive doesn't make it great ... I've over paid many times and it pains me every time I think about it and other times I just don't care ...

To be fair... my only experience with Oregon Bonsai has been Jason ... so take from that what you will ...

 

[yenling83]

I'm so pumped to have Randy and Ryan doing what they are doing in the U.S!!! Great video.

 

[buddhamonk]

To be fair... my only experience with Oregon Bonsai has been Jason ... so take from that what you will ...

In that case you've only scraped the surface. The trees that Jason would bring to Seattle to sell were the "unwanted" trees. The good stuff goes to Ryan or Jim Doyle/Walter Pall on the east coast.

 

[Jason]

I'm not sure why this thread had to go all negative. I've spent a day with Randy at Oregon Bonsai and spent an hour or so at Ryan's place (didn't get to meet him unfortunately, since he was out of town). I think I even got coffee at that place.

The video is fine but doesn't really do the material or Randy justice. He's a hell of a nice guy and I wouldn't describe him as arrogant. The material present at both their places is phenomenal and I didn't see a lot of crap that shouldn't have been collected. Maybe you saw the bad truckload, Ang3lfir3.

Eric, No one was trying to diminish Dan's accomplishments. (you seem like an offended acolyte....maybe I'm reading that wrong) Dan has great material at Elandan, but he has a different aesthetic than what I saw at Ryan's. (note I didn't say better or worse...just different) Besides beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right. That probably goes for even collected material.

I think the video was shot in the spirit of being a promotional video....Maybe self promotion and the whole "spirit" of bonsai is like oil and water....just some random thoughts....

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

I just want to clarify that I'm not actually calling anyone arrogant, though in retrospect it does seem that way. I'm in no position to say anything about him or Ryan personally -- it was all speculation.

Yes, I like the way you said it: "in the spirit of being a promotional video." I'm not "negging" it by any means.

But yes, it's funny how the thread took a distinguishably negative turn. Really, it seems like Ryan and Randy are doing something quite revolutionary for bonsai in the U.S. I know I don't have nearly as much experience as many others on this forum, but I've never really seen trees like Ryan has in the U.S. before. What they're doing is indeed admirable, like it or not. As for claims they've made, I'm not going to pick sides. People exaggerate sometimes, and this may or may not be the case. Either way, their works is really very impressive.

 

[Jason]

Either way, their works is really very impressive.

Ditto to that

 

[Ang3lfir3]

In that case you've only scraped the surface. The trees that Jason would bring to Seattle to sell were the "unwanted" trees. The good stuff goes to Ryan or Jim Doyle/Walter Pall on the east coast.

OHHHHHH so my money isn't green enough .... that's good to know... you aren't helping things

so the plan is reach out to people ... he brought "unwanted" trees to a public auction ... as a first introduction ... nice way to tell people "this unwanted stuff is what you people are worth"

 

[Ang3lfir3]

Alright I wanna know what each of you see as "revolutionary" ...

I ask because if anything is "revolutionary" it is using the internet to publicize themselves heavily.... ok ... that's something new .... Nothing they are doing is "revolutionary" ...

Some please tell me what is so amazing... cuz I'm not seeing it... and that could easily be my own failing... and I'm willing to admit that...


I get the feeling that my idea of great material is VERY different to many other people .... and that's ok I guess .... Honestly a lot of the material I have doesn't even meet my own criteria.... but some of it does ...

let's be really clear here... I'm NOT saying that a vast majority of it is not very good...

I just want to know what everyone is drooling over... Why are you all so excited wetting yourselves all of a sudden ???

 

[Ang3lfir3]

Maybe you saw the bad truckload, Ang3lfir3.

Eric, No one was trying to diminish Dan's accomplishments. (you seem like an offended acolyte....maybe I'm reading that wrong) Dan has great material at Elandan, but he has a different aesthetic than what I saw at Ryan's. (note I didn't say better or worse...just different) Besides beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right. That probably goes for even collected material.

I am offended .... Maybe people don't realize that NOT collecting that much material is a choice ... one of conservation and respect ... it is certainly NOT a lack of skill ... material that isn't interesting is left in hopes that one day it might just become interesting ...


I get a little offended when out of the blue you all turn into giggling school girls wetting your panties over something that is in no way different from things that came before it....


I know ima jerk... and I am sure no one respects me.... but I speak my mind... and that's more than some people

 

[rockm]

I'm not peeing myself. Just acknowledging good material. I picked up a Ponderosa from Jim Doyle in Pa. It was tagged as a "WP" tree, which I guess is Walter Pall. The tree wasn't all that expensive, but pretty superior to any of the collected pondies I've seen here in the east. While that's not saying all that much, I've been getting good, old collected material for quite some time. I'm not a newbie to buying it or appreciating it.

It was a good tree, period. I'm sure that ponderosa has more than a few equals out west, but no one is shipping them east. That is kinda revolutionary, although not unprecedented.

The thing is the guy is marketing himself as no other artist or collector has done. While that is a good/bad thing, it certainly raises the bar for others.

I have no way of knowing HOW the tree was collected, though. That's a bit of a conundrum for me. I am a proponent of responsible collecting. Perhaps that is another selling point for collectors. I know I feel extremely comfortable buying from Andy Smith, given his long history of knowledgeable collection...

 

[october]

I would really like to skew this thread to something that I have had some trouble with as I spend more and more years in bonsai.. and that is the concept of FAIRNESS.....The following statements are or can be rhetorical..

How is it fair that a huge amount of bonsai artists do not have the money or access to such magnificent material. I personally cannot just drop $2000 on bonsai material. I also, cannot just go into an area to collect. Up here in the the Northeast part of the county, there are seemingly very few places to collect outstanding material. Has bonsai become a situation like the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I watch as masters post masterpiece after masterpiece and have outstanding pre material as far as the eye can see. Yet, most people will never know what this is like simple because of monetary and geographical challenges. Personally, it seems like every year, my limit to what I will spend needs to get higher and higher to attain good material..$200, 300, and at last count $400. It is becoming apparent that yes, bonsai does take talent and a good eye. However, the monetary and geographical challenges seem to weigh very heavily as far as one’s progression. I am a long way off from retirement.. I need money to live and cannot sink fortunes into the art that I love. I need to spend countless hours searching for that one piece of material that is reasonably priced and has the potential to become a great bonsai. Then spend years training it.

Everytime a see any well crafted bonsai. I am always in awe of it's beauty. Whether it is a 300 year old masterpiece or a bonsai that was started from a $20 piece of material that someone spent years training it. With which one does the heart of bonsai reside... probably both. However, which one is attainable by only a few select people..the 300 year old masterpiece.

This is all just me typing a rant. There really is not an answer that can be given. It is just how I see it, which I believe, is actually how it is.

Rob

 

[mcpesq817]

I've never heard anyone suggest that the Oregon Bonsai guys were collecting irresponsibly. Given their high success rate on collected trees, it strikes me that they are collecting responsibly, not to mention the fact that only a very small percentage of trees are collectable anyway.

In terms of collecting trees of various "quality" to offer for sale, it's not like everyone can afford (or is comfortable spending) thousands of dollars for a top of the line tree. By collecting and offering for sale more "humble" trees, these sellers are bringing in a lot more hobbyists to working with yamadori, which I think is a good thing.