Roshi Tools

[md4958]

Does anyone have any experience with Roshi stainless tools?

Ive been wanting to get some stainless tools for a while, and Stone Lantern has a nice price on a set right now. I absolutely 100% do not need them, my black carbon tools are working just fine... but need and want are two different animals.

So, would anybody recommend Roshi? I know they aren't Masakuni, but that's not really what Im looking for right now.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Vance Wood]

Does anyone have any experience with Roshi stainless tools?

Ive been wanting to get some stainless tools for a while, and Stone Lantern has a nice price on a set right now. I absolutely 100% do not need them, my black carbon tools are working just fine... but need and want are two different animals.

So, would anybody recommend Roshi? I know they aren't Masakuni, but that's not really what Im looking for right now.

Thanks in advance.

I'm not trying to discourage you from buying stainless, I feel I should point out a few things. They are pricy and easily broken. I have not had it happen but if you drop a stainless tool on concrete it is possible the tool will shatter. I know people who have had this happen.

 

[md4958]

I'm not trying to discourage you from buying stainless, I feel I should point out a few things. They are pricy and easily broken. I have not had it happen but if you drop a stainless tool on concrete it is possible the tool will shatter. I know people who have had this happen.

Those two reasons are why I havent pulled the trigger on them in the past. But this set breaks down to about $40 or so per tool, so that is issue is mitigated.

What ARE the benefits of stainless, other than the shinyness?

 

[jkd2572]

I can't stand cleaning rust off of my tools. For that reason I by stainless when available. Never had one break. I don't drop tools on concrete either.

 

[Vance Wood]

Those two reasons are why I havent pulled the trigger on them in the past. But this set breaks down to about $40 or so per tool, so that is issue is mitigated.

What ARE the benefits of stainless, other than the shinyness?

I'm glad that the price seems to be of no issue to you. For me it still is.

 

[md4958]

I'm glad that the price seems to be of no issue to you. For me it still is.

Its not that it is of no issue Vance, but it is very comparable in price to carbon steel, would you disagree?

 

[jk_lewis]

The main advantage is that they don't rust (as easily).

BUT . . . I'm told (often) that they don't hold an edge as well, and of course, after you've sharpened them, the ground-down edges are more susceptible to rust.

(NOTE: That last is hearsay. I don't have any stainless tools.) (And, I keep my concave cutters wrapped in an oily rag so I don't have rust, either.)

 

[Poink88]

Stainless have evolved since. The better stainless can stand against high carbon steel now in terms of holding their edge. Not sure however what is being used for bonsai tools. I have several stainless and I honestly cannot see the difference between their performance vs carbon steel. I won't hesitate recommending stainless tools from reputable manufacturer specially if you do not care for your tool as much as you should be.

I really have an issue with people claiming tools shattering. Break yes...but shatter? I have yet to see one and until then for me, it is purely hearsay and plain exaggeration.

 

[jkd2572]

Makes me want to go slam my concave cutter on concrete to see I can shatter it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Stainless have evolved since. The better stainless can stand against high carbon steel now in terms of holding their edge. Not sure however what is being used for bonsai tools. I have several stainless and I honestly cannot see the difference between their performance vs carbon steel. I won't hesitate recommending stainless tools from reputable manufacturer specially if you do not care for your tool as much as you should be.

I really have an issue with people claiming tools shattering. Break yes...but shatter? I have yet to see one and until then for me, it is purely hearsay and plain exaggeration.

Often good and quality and premium are equated by high inflated, unreasonable, over rated, over hyped rehtoric and general press with testimonials beyond truth and belief.

 

[Poink88]

Often good and quality and premium are equated by high inflated, unreasonable, over rated, over hyped rehtoric and general press with testimonials beyond truth and belief.

Could be but if you read knife forums, the users actually test them and not just take what is being said or claimed by the manufacturers or marketers.

There are lots of online companies now who thrive by giving honest and unbiased product reviews...otherwise, they will seize to exist.

 

[md4958]

Thank you guys for your input thus far.

But before this thread derails into another pissing match, does anybody have any experience with Roshi Tools specifically?

 

[Vance Wood]

Could be but if you read knife forums, the users actually test them and not just take what is being said or claimed by the manufacturers or marketers.

There are lots of online companies now who thrive by giving honest and unbiased product reviews...otherwise, they will seize to exist.

Not meaning to start an argument but knife forums are not bonsai forums. Now if you mean these tools have been tested by people on the knife forum I still have a problem. If these tools have been tested by people paid to test them I still have a problem. If these tools have been tested by bonsai experts who use them at least 3 to 5 hours a day every day then maybe there is something to think about. However; the argument: "how many people drop on concrete slabs" not realizing that the answer is quite a few. If this has not happened to "you" you're not going at it constantly and in different places.

 

[Poink88]

Often good and quality and premium are equated by high inflated, unreasonable, over rated, over hyped rehtoric and general press with testimonials beyond truth and belief.

Stainless have evolved since. The better stainless can stand against high carbon steel now in terms of holding their edge. Not sure however what is being used for bonsai tools. I have several stainless and I honestly cannot see the difference between their performance vs carbon steel. I won't hesitate recommending stainless tools from reputable manufacturer specially if you do not care for your tool as much as you should be.

I really have an issue with people claiming tools shattering. Break yes...but shatter? I have yet to see one and until then for me, it is purely hearsay and plain exaggeration.

Not meaning to start an argument but knife forums are not bonsai forums. Now if you mean these tools have been tested by people on the knife forum I still have a problem. If these tools have been tested by people paid to test them I still have a problem. If these tools have been tested by bonsai experts who use them at least 3 to 5 hours a day every day then maybe there is something to think about. However; the argument: "how many people drop on concrete slabs" not realizing that the answer is quite a few. If this has not happened to "you" you're not going at it constantly and in different places.

Yes, knife forum is not bonsai forum but you are questioning stainless which is gaining ground in knife forums. And yes, they don't just test them but run them to the ground...some for years. Others simulate more than a knife will endure in a lifetime. As I mentioned and I will repeat, I am not sure what type the bonsai tools makers use.

Re: shattering stainless tools, when where, how? Did you see one in real life or just spreading rumor?

 

[Poink88]

Thank you guys for your input thus far.

But before this thread derails into another pissing match, does anybody have any experience with Roshi Tools specifically?

No experience with Roshi but have some with stainless Ryuga and Jintian
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?12992-Jintian-tools-cheap-bonsai-tools

These 2 brands seem to be identical. Looking at Roshi pics...it too seem identical, most likely from same factory.

 

[63pmp]

I bought a pair of Ryuga spherical cutters about 6 months ago and can say they do not hold an edge like my carbon steel tools do. There are many types of stainless steels available, I would say that knives being tested are using a different SS then whats used for bonsai tools.

I thought the Ryuga were carbon steel when I bought them, but I realize now they are stainless painted black. They feel and act differently to my carbon steel tools, I must say, I don't instinctively reach for them anymore when I want to cut a branch.

I've had the tips of tools break off on scissors and branch cutters when dropped onto concrete floors. Most I've been able to grind down to repair, though on one pair the blade bent out of shape. Never had a pair shatter, but I think it's possible if they are left in a car in a North American winter storm and then dropped.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend any stainless tool for cutting. My experience with bonsai tools is you get what you pay for. You have to weigh the cost against how much work they are doing.

Paul

 

[md4958]

Thank you Paul and Dario

 

[Poink88]

The main advantage is that they don't rust (as easily).

BUT . . . I'm told (often) that they don't hold an edge as well, and of course, after you've sharpened them, the ground-down edges are more susceptible to rust.

(NOTE: That last is hearsay. I don't have any stainless tools.) (And, I keep my concave cutters wrapped in an oily rag so I don't have rust, either.)

Not totally false. Some people mistake chrome coated/plated black steel as stainless, they are not. When you grind the chrome protective coating away, they will rust.

 

[Paradox]

I have a carbon steel set I bought on Amazon for $80. I dont use them alot but I havent had to sharpen them yet. I dont see any reason to pay the amounts to go stainless unless youre lazy and dont take care of your tools (which will cause other problems besides rusty tools).

I use stainless knives to fillet fish alot and yes stainless does hold an edge better than it used to but still not great.

 

[Poink88]

I have a carbon steel set I bought on Amazon for $80. I dont use them alot but I havent had to sharpen them yet. I dont see any reason to pay the amounts to go stainless unless youre lazy and dont take care of your tools (which will cause other problems besides rusty tools).

I use stainless knives to fillet fish alot and yes stainless does hold an edge better than it used to but still not great.

My favorite cutter (my first and relatively cheap) is carbon steel and I take care of it but also abuse it a lot too (is that an oxymoron?)...specially cleaning up roots of collected trees. When you are working on six at a time, it will get submerged into mud for the whole day and again the following day as you refine them. It will get dinged cutting through sand pieces, etc. I employed a stainless for this task now and I am happier.

I treat my tools fine, not lazy but there are days when cleaning them up is not the priority...when you are tired and can hardly walk or eat anymore.

Whether stainless or carbon steel, not all are created equal. How they were tempered also plays a role. How it is profiled and sharpened is another. You will be amazed how different our standards are on what is "sharp" or "sharp enough".