RMJ challenging re-potting

[wireme]

How long after collecting do you start fertilizing? I collected a J. monosperma last month that has nowhere near the root mass that your RMJ has.

Well... I water the day of potting with something high in carbohydrates to feed the mycorrhiza. Used pasta water , honey in water, molasses in water something like that. Not too strong quite dilute.

Keep in mind I just make this up based on amateur research, intuition and stuff some bloke in a pub told me. Can't say if it helps or hinders but it been knock on wood years since I lost a juniper post collection.

Fertilizing, I put a handful of deer, elk, moose or llama pellets on the surface as soon as I get some. Fertilizing with liquid depends on the state if the rootball and surrounding soil, a diffuse root system in very free draining medium will get watered and fertilized almost the same as most of the collection. Big dense rootballs I just try to keep the surrounding medium moist and water and fertilize much less.

 

[Neli]

I am little bit confused here...You said you just try to keep the surrounding soil moist....What about the compacted root ball. I was thinking that will be hard for water to penetrate if too compacted...so it will need thorough watering...to prevent the root ball from drying.
What is the logic behind it?
I had a tree that I planted in a similar manner and my gardener was not watering thoroughly...the water was going on the sides and the root mass in the center dried and roots died...so This is the part that confuses me.

 

[amkhalid]

Well... I water the day of potting with something high in carbohydrates to feed the mycorrhiza. Used pasta water , honey in water, molasses in water something like that. Not too strong quite dilute.

Interesting you mention this... I have a book written in Japanese by Takeo Kawabe and in the book it seems that he uses a solution of pure glucose for some of his trees. Keep in mind I don't understand exactly what is happening as it is all in Japanese... but he is definitely using it for something.

I guess it makes sense in theory as a newly collected plant might be limited in it's ability to make it's own glucose, so to help it along you can provide it. I know you said you are using the carbs for the myco... but still reminded me of that article.

 

[wireme]

I am little bit confused here...You said you just try to keep the surrounding soil moist....What about the compacted root ball. I was thinking that will be hard for water to penetrate if too compacted...so it will need thorough watering...to prevent the root ball from drying.
What is the logic behind it?
I had a tree that I planted in a similar manner and my gardener was not watering thoroughly...the water was going on the sides and the root mass in the center dried and roots died...so This is the part that confuses me.

Good point Neli,

These dense mountain rootballs once saturated hold moisture for a very long time, the trees in the wild manage to stay alive from mostly moisture reserve from the cool moist springtime and snowmelt. Summer rainfalls are infrequent where they grow. Their ability to go into dormancy or quiescence is another factor as well as their connection to potentially large mycellial networks connecting one plant to another and gaining moisture from tiny rock crevices.

Anyway I think we all accept that trees in dense soil should have less frequent waterings than those in granular soil. Depending on the size and density if the compact rootball I try to give infrequent deep thorough waterings coupled with frequent moistening of the surrounding substrate.

 

[Poink88]

I am little bit confused here...You said you just try to keep the surrounding soil moist....What about the compacted root ball. I was thinking that will be hard for water to penetrate if too compacted...so it will need thorough watering...to prevent the root ball from drying.
What is the logic behind it?
I had a tree that I planted in a similar manner and my gardener was not watering thoroughly...the water was going on the sides and the root mass in the center dried and roots died...so This is the part that confuses me.

All good points.

Remember that once totally dried, most substrate (especially compacted soil) becomes water resistant/repellent. This might be what happened to you.

IF the rootball did not reach that dryness, any moisture provided to the outer soil will slowly wick in the old compacted soil. Frequent small dose of water (or misting) work better in this case. Not the best solution or condition but sometimes you do not have a choice as in the newly collected conifers.

Teasing the outer edges of the original rootball help get that transition between soil better.

I read some use ice cubes to deliver the water slowly.

 

[wireme]

Interesting you mention this... I have a book written in Japanese by Takeo Kawabe and in the book it seems that he uses a solution of pure glucose for some of his trees. Keep in mind I don't understand exactly what is happening as it is all in Japanese... but he is definitely using it for something.

I guess it makes sense in theory as a newly collected plant might be limited in it's ability to make it's own glucose, so to help it along you can provide it. I know you said you are using the carbs for the myco... but still reminded me of that article.

I don't know much about how trees produce the carbs and what they use them for it would be interesting to know what the guys in the book was up to and why.

The Myc theoretically provide nutrient and moisture collecting benefits and a shield against pathogens, in some cases against insect attack as well. Symbiotic organisms generally have an interest in keeping each other alive and healthy, in the end though it can certainly come down to an every man for himself situation. There can be times where the drawing of carbs by the Myc outweighs the benefits. My theory is that feeding the Myc takes some pressure off the plant while the system develops a new equilibrium. All conjecture of course, maybe the plant likes the stuff too? Maybe it can backfire and feed pathogens instead?

My other theory is that foliar feeding in a similar manner can have a huge impact in resistance to fungal blights by keeping the beneficial foliar and intracellular fungi thriving, a living shield. Again though, in practice who knows, you may wind up feeding the pathogens.

 

[wireme]

I may have finally found the tree within the tree.

A change of planting angle makes some of the problem areas less problematic, I think I see the way forward design wise now. Still just grow and a bit of selective pruning this year, repot at new angle next year probably and then we're getting closer.

 

[wireme]

Whoops, pic was sideways.

 

[wireme]

Well...
I carried on with the root reduction mission this spring. The tree shed a fair bit but it looks happy enough now.

I think it has been 6, maybe 7 years from collection to whittle it down into a pot. Two repots, not bad, first one shown here in 2013 was more or less a half bareroot type deal. Now to figure out what to do with it. A lot of awkward there, fair bit of cool too. At least now I can pick it up, spin it around, clean roots, good soil, should stay healthy.

 

[Tim.E]

Well...
I carried on with the root reduction mission this spring. The tree shed a fair bit but it looks happy enough now.

I think it has been 6, maybe 7 years from collection to whittle it down into a pot. Two repots, not bad, first one shown here in 2013 was more or less a half bareroot type deal. Now to figure out what to do with it. A lot of awkward there, fair bit of cool too. At least now I can pick it up, spin it around, clean roots, good soil, should stay healthy. View attachment 111765View attachment 111766View attachment 111767

That last pic is my favourite. Amazing movement and good taper. This is a wicked tree man

 

[wireme]

That last pic is my favourite. Amazing movement and good taper. This is a wicked tree man

Thanks Tim,
That last pic does seem like a no brainer for the front. But if you look at the first pic you can see the movement there that is hidden by this angle. Kinda awkward. Anyways the tree made it through the summer post transplant just fine so next year I'll try to figure out what to do with this.

 

[wireme]

I was out mushroom hunting today and drove past the former home of this tree.

It was on the tip of the rock nipple in the centre of the pic there, heavy haul outta there with that rootball! This is the kind of place I go collecting. I keep seeing Facebook posts of guys collecting south of me. Sauntering around open rolling hills with giant trees on their backs, damn! Kinda jealous of the terrain sometimes. Ok, often I can drive up closer but it's always steeper than the back of gods head with loose scree and bushwacking to contend with.

 

[drew33998]

Well...
I carried on with the root reduction mission this spring. The tree shed a fair bit but it looks happy enough now.

I think it has been 6, maybe 7 years from collection to whittle it down into a pot. Two repots, not bad, first one shown here in 2013 was more or less a half bareroot type deal. Now to figure out what to do with it. A lot of awkward there, fair bit of cool too. At least now I can pick it up, spin it around, clean roots, good soil, should stay healthy. View attachment 111765View attachment 111766View attachment 111767

Time to shari in between those live veins?