Request tree identification

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The orange -ish bark on the roots had me thinking Celastrus. Bittersweet. Leaves alternate with slightly serrated margin is also a Celastrus trait. But the plant in question does not have a vining habit. The Celastrus I collected is fairly upright but still will vine. So no clue.

Basically, I'm at a loss.

 

[penumbra]

I love it that know one can nail this down definitively.
A true mystery.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Gosh, so sorry, I never thought this ID would turn out to be a version of ‘Stump the Stars.’

Given the clump survives maybe there will be some flowers or other clues show up...

... alternately I will be going back to my friends farm to see if I can get cuttings of his deciduous native azalea and flowering quince in a couple weeks. Maybe I can spot a ‘Mother tree’...

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Ohmy222]

I will guess Beautyberry or Forsythia

 

[Woocash]

My first thought was a prunus of some sort. I took a load of root cuttings/water sprouts last year from a mature greengage plum and both the leaves and stems look v similar.

I’ll try and get some pics.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I will guess Beautyberry or Forsythia

Both beautyberry and forsythia has an opposite leaf pattern. The shrub in question has an alternate leaf pattern.

 

[misfit11]

I still think it's Rose Family. The leaves look like they could be Prunus sp.

 

[StarGazer]

Given the tree was found next to quince and in in proximity of apples and pears, I would suspect also a potential quince/pear or quince/apple hybrid. I think they can hybridize. @Leo in N E Illinois , do you have insight into quince hybrids?

 

[StarGazer]

Given the tree was found next to quince and in in proximity of apples and pears, I would suspect also a potential quince/pear or quince/apple hybrid. I think they can hybridize. @Leo in N E Illinois , do you have insight into quince hybrids?

I forgot to add that quince, pears and apples are all visited by bees, so cross pollination that way is certainly possible.

 

[Forsoothe!]

You're reaching... more likely a native that wandered in from surrounding territory. It's been known to happen more frequently than hybridizing.

 

[StarGazer]

It is just a hypothesis, not stated as fact. Hybridization is "possible" based on: 1. the scientific literature on quince hybridization which is extensive and well documented 2. the fact that pears, quince and apples are genetically closely related, and can hybridize 3.the phenotype of the picture, and 4. the location of the plant with relation to potential parents.

Another valid hypothesis, is that could be a native as you point out.

It will be nice to see if it blooms as the flowers may help with the identification.

Another way to resolve this puzzle, but only if there was sufficient interest in the op to get this question answered, would be to genotype the tree. There are even microsatellites that have been characterized to distinguish pear quince hybrids. Having a sample of the parent quince tree that was next to the tree where the bush was located, would even allow to easily determine if that is the parent or not.

 

[AJL]

It might help if you posted more in-focus photos of foliage and branches to show characteristics and growth habit .
Having said that it does look a lot like a species of Prunus

 

[penumbra]

One of the few things I remember about bees from entomology is that when they are foraging they visit only one type of plant per trip. It is a fascinating adaption that shows the intelligence that exists in nature. An insects ability to pollinate would be seriously limiting if it went from daisy to apple to lily. Still, natural hybrids do happen all the time.

 

[Lutonian]

One of the few things I remember about bees from entomology is that when they are foraging they visit only one type of plant per trip. It is a fascinating adaption that shows the intelligence that exists in nature. An insects ability to pollinate would be seriously limiting if it went from daisy to apple to lily. Still, natural hybrids do happen all the time.

There are over 16000 known species of bee. The ones in my garden (various type of bumble bee and honey bees) will visit roses, daisies and other plants in one trip.

 

[Forsoothe!]

How many kinds of Bumblebee exist? Some of mine are almost too big to fly, are they just old and fat?

 

[Lutonian]

How many kinds of Bumblebee exist? Some of mine are almost too big to fly, are they just old and fat?

don't know lots there are even vulture bees that make meat honey imagine that on your morning toast or to glaze a ham! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture_bee

 

[Forsoothe!]

Do the Green Freaks know about this? Will all the Vulture Bees die when we get rid of cows, or maybe we have to keep cows so the bees have something to eat! Hurrah, the hamburger is saved, and the Green Freaks will have to save us from Global (fill in the latest blank) some other way, like making humans collect our gas in portable tanks that we plug into our cars when we want to go to the store! (Truck drivers will have a special diet).

 

[StarGazer]

One of the few things I remember about bees from entomology is that when they are foraging they visit only one type of plant per trip. It is a fascinating adaption that shows the intelligence that exists in nature. An insects ability to pollinate would be seriously limiting if it went from daisy to apple to lily.

Hi penumbra, I completely agree, species specific pollination is one of the incredible way evolution works. Several species of wild bees have specific plant species they pollinate, and several wild endemic flowers have specific wild bees they can be pollinated by, so they depend on each other and coevolve. Wild bees tend to be solitary or have small colonies.

European honeybees, on the other hand, tend to be a bit more generalists and have large colonies. That is why farmers keep honeybee colonies in their orchards as they are proficient pollinators. But, as you mentioned, even honeybees would visit a single flower as pollen/nectar source, but given some conditions, if it is in bloom and relatively separated from other blooms. This is mainly due to the way they direct the colony to visit the nectar/pollen source. If there are different species of plants, in particular flowering trees that are in bloom simultaneously and next to each other in a mixed crop (not a monocrop), they will visit them.

 

[penumbra]

Hi penumbra, I completely agree, species specific pollination is one of the incredible way evolution works. Several species of wild bees have specific plant species they pollinate, and several wild endemic flowers have specific wild bees they can be pollinated by, so they depend on each other and coevolve. Wild bees tend to be solitary or have small colonies.

European honeybees, on the other hand, tend to be a bit more generalists and have large colonies. That is why farmers keep honeybee colonies in their orchards as they are proficient pollinators. But, as you mentioned, even honeybees would visit a single flower as pollen/nectar source, but given some conditions, if it is in bloom and relatively separated from other blooms. This is mainly due to the way they direct the colony to visit the nectar/pollen source. If there are different species of plants, in particular flowering trees that are in bloom simultaneously and next to each other in a mixed crop (not a monocrop), they will visit them.

Thank you so much I really didn't have time right now for a google search. I am potting and pruning and such and visit this site on breaks.
Have a great day. I learned something from a true gentleperson which makes it a great day for me.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Given the tree was found next to quince and in in proximity of apples and pears, I would suspect also a potential quince/pear or quince/apple hybrid. I think they can hybridize. @Leo in N E Illinois , do you have insight into quince hybrids?

I honestly don't know. I have not heard of quince hybrids with pear or apple. That does not mean they don't exist. I have eaten Shipova, the Rowan by Pear hybrid. (Sorbus x Pyrus). I would expect an invasive , or a native, I doubt it is a spontaneous hybrid seedling. But who knows? Time, and clear photos of flowers will eventually sort it out.