Repotting and half bare rooting pines
- Thread starter maroun.c
- Start date
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
When Boon tells you to remove wire.
Is he changing the tree or the artist?
That's the point.
Your window to the world seems a small gloomy porthole.
Sorce
maroun.c
Omono
Thanks. This thread has derailed in a million way I guess but still good to see how much diversity there is which makes me feel better about all the soil unclarity I had so far.
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maroun.c
Omono
Enjoying the soli discussion although it doesn't really serve my question as I cant get Akadama here!
Quick question when using Akadama and it breaks down into a mush, do u bare root and repot in following rend of winter or do u take 2 years to repot? Is the fear of full bare root only when moving out of nursery soil as itll entail too much root damage while conifers in bonsai soil can be easily bare rooted without major damage to roots which minimizes the risk of a full bare root?
Quick question when using Akadama and it breaks down into a mush, do u bare root and repot in following rend of winter or do u take 2 years to repot? Is the fear of full bare root only when moving out of nursery soil as itll entail too much root damage while conifers in bonsai soil can be easily bare rooted without major damage to roots which minimizes the risk of a full bare root?
WTH are you talking about??? “When Boon tells me to remove wire”. WHAT are you talking about??? When I was learning to wire and made mistakes? Not having the wire properly anchored? Or, are you talking about removing wire because it’s either done it’s job, or the tree has outgrown it, and needs to be rewired?
If it’s the first, if I wired incorrectly, yes, Boon was teaching me the skills, the craft skills if bonsai, so that I will have those skills to create the art of bonsai. Removing poor work and trying again is is way of teaching. He doesn’t just say that’s no good, and allows us to keep it on the tree, no, he makes us remove it. Wipe the slate clean, and begin again. Yes, it’s a bit humiliating. It really encourages you to not repeat that mistake! It’s also encouraging when you “get it right”!
Not allowing substandard work to remain is one of the things you get when you work in person with a teacher, as opposed to watching videos to learn. If you watch a video, then try to do what it taught, if you screw up, how would you know? If you did realize you screwed up, what would you do? Say to yourself, “well, that was bad, I won’t do that on the next one”? Or will you remove what you just did, and try again? Be honest... most of us wouldn’t remove it and start over. We might try to patch it up somehow... add more wire or something. No, only if some is standing over your shoulder and evaluating your work, would you remove it, and start from scratch.
It was in my 3rd your of Intensives when Boon told me that I finally had enough wiring skills that he could start teaching me “the art” of setting pads. My wiring skills have improved since that day, and he no longer finds poorly anchored wires on my work. I now know all the pitfalls, and know how to avoid them. I now concentrate on making my wiring “elegant”, that is, using the minimal amount of wire, using the proper sized wire, having it be as “hidden” as possible.
Sorce, I think you’re a fairly intelligent fellow. I often can’t follow your stream of conscious style of writing. But, you seem to take the position that “if it’s good enough for you, then it’s good enough”. The thing is, that’s just not true. Not if you want to get any better than mediocre. When I work on a tree, it’s as if I have Boon looking over my shoulder, evaluating my work. I look at every piece of wire, every bend I make and try to imagine if Boon were evaluating it. Because he has high standards. We all should.
Akadama breaks down slowly. And it’s only 1/3 of the soil in the mix. The HBR process is usually only necessary to transition from non-bonsai nursery soil into good, inorganic bonsai soil. Once you have gotten all the organic matter out, the stuff that can become root rot, you’re good. From that point on, just a regular bonsai repotting process is all that’s required to keep the roots healthy.
Cosmos
Shohin
You should try to investigate crush brick as a potential substrate component in your area. Go see excavation businesses and ask them if they have crushed materials like clay chips or crushed brick particles (or lava), and if they do, see if the size is right or if they can break it down to usable size (around 0.5cm). Maybe it could be hard to buy only small quantities, but on the good side, if you manage to get it, it should be very very cheap.
You certainly could do worse than a crushed brick + perlite (from garden centers) + pine bark mix for conifers.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Crushed earthenware red porous building block.
http://wow.guardian.co.tt/business/2014-06-05/400m-abel-clay-factory-launched
what the blocks look like.
Just do like us, make a simple brick crusher.
No need to depend on industry. [still in progress ]
Health always before design.
Get pines lush and well ramified before trying to design.
Please note we use no brick in the Pine soil mix and use porous
pots.
Good Day
Anthony
http://wow.guardian.co.tt/business/2014-06-05/400m-abel-clay-factory-launched
what the blocks look like.
Just do like us, make a simple brick crusher.
No need to depend on industry. [still in progress ]
Health always before design.
Get pines lush and well ramified before trying to design.
Please note we use no brick in the Pine soil mix and use porous
pots.
Good Day
Anthony
Your such a good explainer on process, simple but specific and infinitely understandable. Can you share a description of your" regular bonsai repotting process"?
DirkvanDreven
Shohin
The differences between different bags of Akadama are big sometimes. Usually I repot my young pines after three years.I use pre sieved mixes of Akadama, Pumice and lava. Usually after three years there hardly any breakdown of Akadama. If I would do 'sochi' every fall I'm convinced this mix would last 5 years between repotting. On the other hand last spring I used a pre-sieved mix of Akadama an pumice, that turned to mud in august all ready.
Here goes nuthin’:
Starting with a tree already in inorganic bonsai soil, but needs repotting, first cut the tie down wires off under the pot as short as possible. Same with the wires holding the screens in place.
Then, take a sickle, and scrape it along the inside edge of a long side of the pot. It’s not a swing action, it’s a long pull in one direction. You should pull a little soil out with each pull, and each pull should dig a little deeper between the pot and the rootball. You will create an open trench about 1/4 inch wide between the pot and root ball. Yes, thus does damage roots. Don’t worry about it.
Do similiar “trenching” along the short sides of the pot. You only have to do three sides, because I eve yo have 3 sides done, the tree should “tip” out of the pot. With some pots where the lip of the pot is narrow, you may have to cut all the way around. Like a “bag pot”.
Once the tree is out, set it down flat on a solid work surface.
Prepare the new pot in advance if you know what pot you’re going to use. For brevity, I’m going to assume the reader already knows how to do this.
I’ll preview the process: Step 1- work the bottom; Step 2 - work the sides and top; Step 3 - add soil to pot; Step 4 - put in the tree, and secure with wire; Step 5 - backfill with soil and chopstick it in; Step 6 - level it; Step 7 - water it
A bit more detail on each step:
Step 0: Prepare pot with screens over drain holes and wire for tie downs.
Step 1: Work the bottom. Have you 3 pronged root rake handy. Tip the tree over so the bottom of the rootball is vertical. I do this by testing a long side of the rootball near the edge of the work surface, and letting the branches hang over the side of the table. So, I’m holding the trunk with my left hand, and wielding the rook rake with my right. What I am going to do next is take soil, and likely a layer of matted roots off the bottom of the rootball, but try to keep it as flat as possible in the process. This will create a mess. So, I like to have a bin of some kind at my feet so when I create a pile of roots and soil, I can pull it towards me, and it will fall into the bin at my feet.
I start at the bottom, where the rootball is resting on the table. Why there? Because if I started at the top, the stuff would fall and cover the bottom! Starting at the bottom first gives me a better chance to get that part done and still keep it flat. So, I take my root rake and start on the far side of the bottom and pull and drag it across the bottom of the rootball. Usually a mat of roots is lifted/pulled off. I work my way up, lifting and pulling that mat of roots off the bottom. Sometimes they just break away easily, sometimes not. Regardless, I use my “bent handled scissors” to cut the mass off the bottom. These are scissors especially designed so that the cutting blades can be pressed up against the bottom of the root ball, but the bend allows you fingers to be off the rootball so you can work the scissors.
Now, I might have to scrape acros the entire bottom a couple times to remove maybe 1/2 inch of soil. Once the soil is removed, and remember DON’t dig in, just keep it flat, then use the scissors to cut away the exposed roots. When you’re done, the bottom should be as smooth as possible. Nothing sticking out.
Note: it’s common to not scrape the bottom consistently. Most of the time, I find I’ve scraped more up high than I did where the bottom of the rootball is resting on the table. When you think you’re done, set the tree back down on the table, and check to make sure you haven’t induced an angle you didn’t really want! Make sure it’s flat, and level. (If you want to change the potting angle of the tree in the pot, do it now!)
Step 2: using bent tip tweezers, and root hook (if necessary), scrape the top and sides of the root ball. This should cause more circling roots to pull away from the rootball. Trim these off. You should pull in one direction, from the trunk out in a radial direction. Loosening soil and straightening out crossing roots. Create a little slope down on the top from the trunk out to the edge of the rootball. Work your way around the entire rootball, removing long circling roots.
Once you’ve been around, eliminating all circling roots, check to see if there are any “too heavy” roots you can cut back. Once that’s done, use your bent tip tweezers to loosen and remove about a 3/4 inch band of soil from around the outside of the rootball. You want to leave the little roots and rootlets, just remove the soil around the edge. Not the top, you want the top smooth. Just make it “fuzzy” around the outer edge. You might have to spray the worked roots as you work your way around.
Step 3: Add soil. If it’s a deep pot, put a layer of larger pumice down. Then add main potting soil. I use Boon Mix. Equal parts akadama, pumice and lava, all sieved to be the same size. Put soil down over the entire bottom, them make a little mound where you are going to put the trunk.
Step 4: Then place the tree on the mound, and place your hands on top of the rootball and press the tree down into the mound, giving it a little back and forth twisting motion to really “scrunch” it in. Check for proper potting height by looking right at rim level. You should “just” see the nebari if you are looking where your eye is even with the edge of the pot. The nebari should not be up on a mound.
Now wire the tree firmly into the pot. I like the “4 corners cage” method, but that depends on the pot. (Exact methods are beyond the scope of this write-up). Wire it in tightly so that the tree doesn’t budge at all!
Step 5: Add more soil and use a chopstick to help push soil particles into the voids between the roots. When you insert the chopstick, be gentle. Remember how small those exposed roots were! Push in and wiggle, this creates an opening, then use you finger of your other hand to push soil down into the void. THAT’s the important part, the back filling! Not the chopping! In the corners where there are no roots, no need to chopstick! Go around once, maybe twice then quit! Now for the important step: press down on the rootball, and tap the side of the pot with the meat of your fist. Do all four sides. You will see the soil settle.
Step 6: Level it. After settling, check to see if the soil is level. It should be level, and be about 1/4 inch lower than the rim of the pot. Those little broom thingys are great to use to sweep across the soil surface and level it out. Add or remove soil as needed to get it level and even.
Step 7: take it outside and water it until the water runs clear.
Note: why make the bottom smooth and the sides fuzzy? If the bottom (or sides) are smooth, the roots won’t tend to grow into the new soil. The new soil is much more open, and roots don’t want to grow into “air”. So, we intentionally make the bottoms smooth because we don’t want roots growing down. BUT, we make the sides fuzzy so after chopsticking in fresh soil, the roots are already in the open mix. So, the side roots will grow into the new open soil because they’re already in it.
I hope this helps.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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They should be
This should be a sticky in the resources section… Unless someone with less than one year’s experience disagrees…
But Dave, I’m not a REAL master, just a wanna-be. I’m sure I couldn’t meet the Bolero standard!They should be
This should be a sticky in the resources section… Unless someone with less than one year’s experience disagrees…
Warpig
Chumono
Well yea! Your not some old dead Japanese guy.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Bless his heart!
maroun.c
Omono
Thanks for the great explanation. So if I understood correctly trees in inorganic mix never get the soil close to the trunk or centre root ball changed, just the edges and bottom soil gets changed?
BunjaeKorea
Omono
After reading through this I highly regret not bringing popcorn from the beginning.
For the most part, yes. If you feel you do need to change the soil close in, do a HBR.
Deciduous trees are less fussy about their roots. You can bare root them when repotting.
misfit11
Omono
This should be a sticky! I think that this is the best explanation of repotting I’ve ever seen. You really need to do it in person with someone who is experienced with it but if you can’t then this is a great resource for beginners in the hobby. This along with your explanation of the HBR technique with pines (which I really appreciated, BTW) are invaluable. Nice work Adair !
bwaynef
Masterpiece
Boon's (JBP) repotting videos detail this as well. (I don't think his HBR technique is in the video, but its a special case. The Deciduous/Maple repotting video involves more barerooting as well.)
