Hello Shibui. This cutting back at old needles verses cutting back at already present buds caught my eye. Does this work on other pines like lodgepole, ponderosa etc or just JBP?
Cutting back into a section with healthy needles is often done to promote back budding within the interior of branches. Particularly with those species that do not have multi flush tendencies. But it is always safer to cut back to an existing side shoot or existing bud. It is even safer to ut back to a side shoot or bud that has had at least one full growing season to establish itself. The devil is in the details. That is the problem with a general question. It depends. When the grower knows the tree and its condition, the options vary for methods.
In your personnal experience what is the probability to kill the branch on a JBP after removing all buds and cutting back to old needles and leaving, for example 10 pairs of old needles ? 0.1% ; 1% ; 10% ; 50% ?
Pines are not native down here so, even for bonsai, we have very few to work with which means my direct experience is with JBP and JRP, one single mugho and a few younger JWPs that I still have little experience with so I can't tell you how other species react.
This observation is a very good one. My apologies for not pointing this out initially. Cutting back hard needs to be done on all branches at the same time. Be VERY careful leaving younger growing tips above a hard cut back as most trees will direct any energy to maintain existing growing points. I guess new buds need more effort so seem to be a second choice for most trees.
is it the pics, it looks like your pine needles are quite yellowish ?
There is a difference between what we do in candle cutting and cutting back a branch into 3 year old needles.
Pictures are often needed it seems. Those who develop pines understand this process and do not question it. Those who collect Yamadori pines and need to chase back foliage, understand and use this technique all the time. Here in my nursery the focus is on developing pines and conifers. JBP, JRP, Scots Pine, Shore Pine. Retaining needles in select locations and cutting back into older needles is a standard technique used in combination with other techniques. Many growers put a focus on trunk development and thickening prior to chasing back the foliage to the interior or lower down on the trunk.
We share the same experience. Pictures show several types of pines in various stages of development all have benefited from cut back into older but healthier sections of needles without side shoots in order to create a stronger back budding response closer in to the trunk, or on the trunk itself when sacrifice leader was chopped.
Oh Ye of little faith!. I have not kept count of the number of trees. I have developed over 750 JBP for sure. Fewer JRP and other varieties of pine. For a rough estimate approximately a thousand. Those are from seed, not counting developing more mature pines from other growers or collected trees of indeterminate age. The only thing I can state for sure is that I have not lost a branch as a result of this technique. That being said it is very important that trees be healthy and vigorous if you wish to apply Bonsai techniques with success. Just performing the correct technique at the right time is only part of the process. I definitely agree that the successful use of technique depends on strong, healthy vigorous trees.
The most common time is late fall/early winter, Often done just prior to bud swell in the spring. I prefer the first because it gives more time for bud formation and stronger new growth before winter. Because trees vary in response one needs to be prepared and adapt the timing and aftercare for trees and ultimately the development timing branch to branch on the same tree. They do not read memos with respect to following a schedule in my experience. Also keep in mind your climate and growing season. Beest to follow practices and advice from those who know and also share the same circumstances.
Thanks @River's Edge … that’s helpful… I think I missed the early winter window so will try second best option you mentioned. Below is candidate in question… was reported early 2023 so didn’t really want to do anything else but responded very well and currently is holding needles for at least last two growing seasons.
I still need to understand something Shibui...are you saying that if I have a branch on a healthy pine 10" long with a very small live branch at the end of that branch, and no buds anywhere, and I cut off that branch 6" away from the trunk amongst healthy older needles that I could very likely get buds from the end of the branch to the trunk? I'm working with 2 flush Lodgepole and Ponderosa by the way. Thank you for clarifying that.
Your tree looks healthy. Always best to let the tree recover after repotting. Maintaining a high level of health is important for best results.
August 44 You quoted both Shibui and myself in the same query! Post #37. Just for clarity I am not in disagreement with his explanations.
Sorry for the confusion Frank, but glad you answered my question. I am somewhat new to this game (5 years) and have always been taught to always cut back at a bud or branch or the limb will die back to the closest bud or branch. I had no idea that one could cut back to healthy needles and expect back budding. Always learning.
