Red maple? Trident maple? Need help with ID

[19Mateo83]

Well…. The tips of the leaves do curl in, and I will be collecting seeds this fall and trying my hand to see if it grows true to seed. The largest leaves I can see on this big tree are no more than two inches across so it should be a good candidate for bonsai. I think the tree is an original planting to the neighborhood and was already well established with a 8 to 9 inch trunk when we moved here 27 years ago so it’s definitely a slower grower than the silver and reds.

 

[Shibui]

Wait I can take pics of the new maple I bought and y’all can help me ID it? What will y’all need? Normally the people I buy them from label the variety but this guy did not.

Start a new thread for your ID.

For best ID we need as much as possible of the following:
Clear pics of leaves to show shape and size.
Clear pics of an entire shoot to show how the leaves grow along the shoot.
Clear pic of bark on the trunk.
Overall shot of the whole tree to show its shape and growth habit.
Anything unusual or special about the tree if there's anything.
Whether the tree came from a nursery or from local forest, garden, etc.
Make sure you include your location as that sometimes helps to narrow down possibilities.

 

[Ming dynasty]

Start a new thread for your ID.

For best ID we need as much as possible of the following:
Clear pics of leaves to show shape and size.
Clear pics of an entire shoot to show how the leaves grow along the shoot.
Clear pic of bark on the trunk.
Overall shot of the whole tree to show its shape and growth habit.
Anything unusual or special about the tree if there's anything.
Whether the tree came from a nursery or from local forest, garden, etc.
Make sure you include your location as that sometimes helps to narrow down possibilities.

Will do, I’ll post one soon. Thank you this and the other reply

 

[Frozentreehugger]

So are we leaning towards black maple?

Some research indicates black is more heat tolerant than sugar and is often 3 lobed leaves ( not here but black is fairly rare here and probable crosses with sugar ) . I would look for the petiole at the base of the leaf stem . The large mature tree size and form looks right. As does the mature bark . Leaf you show looks small . But may be related to zone . so black is a distinct possibility . I am not versed in the southern maples . So no idea . Considering it’s a street tree could be some sort of nursery man cross For the record black is slow growing even slower than sugar which is slow

 

[Frozentreehugger]

The leaf size is the biggest stumbling block . Black maple 3 to 5 inches long and as wide normally towards the larger end . Same as sugar and other natives . Is the tree alone . As in the only one around like that is there similar trees with bigger leaves . I’m at a loss no North American or European maple has that small a leaf that I’m aware of . Campestre Being the smallest Dirr states 2 to 4 inches but bark seems to rough . And size

 

[19Mateo83]

Collected seeds today. Still not 100% on what this maple is, the leaves are turning yellow and orange and it’s still holding on to the samaras. As you can see the leaves reduce quite small and there’s the occasional three lobed one like a trident. The mystery continues!

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Collected seeds today. Still not 100% on what this maple is, the leaves are turning yellow and orange and it’s still holding on to the samaras. As you can see the leaves reduce quite small and there’s the occasional three lobed one like a trident. The mystery continues!View attachment 458894

I think you self ruled out Acer rubrum it’s seeds mature in late spring early summer . Anything is possible but I’ve never seen a red maple with seeds still on the tree at this time of year . Maybe a few add ball seeds would be possible but they would not be that fresh .

 

[SC1989]

Acer Nigrum. Sugar maple has a little more sharp toothing.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I just can’t commit to sugar pic is my yard tree leaves this past Sunday classic sugar 5 lobe leaf is clear . As is fall colour . I have 1 black maple sapling . It’s leaf shape is identical to the 5 lobe sugar above . My understanding is black can have more variations than sugar . But your leaves seem to small and not distinct 5 lobed . I think you need to go with process of eliminating it’s fall seeding rules out a lot . Possible a cross of other fall seeders . I’m really curious what the seeds produce

 

[19Mateo83]

I just can’t commit to sugar pic is my yard tree leaves this past Sunday classic sugar 5 lobe leaf is clear . As is fall colour . I have 1 black maple sapling . It’s leaf shape is identical to the 5 lobe sugar above . My understanding is black can have more variations than sugar . But your leaves seem to small and not distinct 5 lobed . I think you need to go with process of eliminating it’s fall seeding rules out a lot . Possible a cross of other fall seeders . I’m really curious what the seeds produce

Me too, I’ve never seen anything like this. I know the few tridents around here are still holding seed but I haven’t seen any other maples holding seed. I cut a few of the seeds open to see if they are developed and sure enough they are. I guess we will see next year what they produce. My plan is to dry them out a bit and get some stratifying.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Me too, I’ve never seen anything like this. I know the few tridents around here are still holding seed but I haven’t seen any other maples holding seed. I cut a few of the seeds open to see if they are developed and sure enough they are. I guess we will see next year what they produce. My plan is to dry them out a bit and get some stratifying.

Only fall seeding maple I’ve grown from seed is sugar . I’ve had better luck letting nature stratify give them a light bath in peroxide then sow them in trays fresh . They go in winter storage with my trees ( non heated building ) protected from rodents . But I live in the heart if sugar maple native range considering you seem to have ample amount of seeds I would try both good luck

 

[CptnGlyn]

The full tree photo looks like it has been planted as a street tree, so a specific nursery variety is likely although I’m in the UK so it might be different there.

One thing to mention, you are certainly on the right track, and for what it’s worth Acer nigrum is no longer considered a distinct species and rather is a subspecies of Acer saccharum (ssp. nigrum).

At the office I have an ID book solely for maples. Next time I am there I will look this up for you to be sure but I’d certainly go with nigrum for now

 

[Pitoon]

You can rule out Red maple and Trident that's for sure.

 

[SC1989]

Im still sticking with black maple. Hmm, I'll check out this black maple when I bring my kids to the bus stop. Compare some leaves.

 

[Paradox]

Yea definitely not trident or sugar maple

 

[SC1989]

Black maple. Look at any dormant buds, black maple s aren't red. Sugar definitely looks alike, but the armpits on a sugar are deeper and very rounded. I'm sticking with Acer Nigrum

 

[ChefB]

I just noticed this maple at the end of my street was holding samaras. I thought that this was a red maple for years, but they drop samaras in spring. Any ideas to a identification? Could this be some sort of trident cross?
View attachment 447081
View attachment 447083
View attachment 447082

Ever tried the picture this app.? I use it all the time and it’s usually pretty accurate.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Pics are from Dirrs book black sugar and hedge . As has been stated above Black is considered a subspecies of sugar . Up here the leaves are very very similar ti sugar I’ll get you a pic of my young black . And as I stated earlier black is considered to have more variation then sugar Dirr states as in the pic in book they droop at the sides and have a stipule I think it’s called at base of leaf stem . Mine has Absence of both . It’s seed grown from a black maple only sugar bush . Black can be 3 lobed instead of 5 my understanding is more southern trees are not consistently 5 lobed like here . All evidence considered you pretty much have to have black maple . Only thing wrong is the small leaf size . May be environment related . I’m glad the seeds are local for you there is considerable evidence that sugar maple cold and heat tolerance is very seed source . Related . One thing I have learned is sugar being a climax forest tree is not a low light understory tree . With healthy recovered from work roots they are a full sun tree especially in the north . This can be misrepresented by there climax tree . Habit they create one of the highest level of shade of any dicid tree . That only there seedlings will tolerate . Waiting on the forest floor for a opportunity for light . Give them that light . I’m very envious my friend if you have discovered a naturally small leaved black maple seed source . can’t wait to see the seedlings . Next year you may have to mail some seeds to Canada

 

[CptnGlyn]

I didn’t make it into the office for the maple book today, but one of my colleagues was in so I had him send me the section involving nigrum (saccharum spp.).

Again it looks like black, hopefully this, in combination with frozentreehugger’s post above mean you can now rest easy tonight!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@19Mateo83
I would NOT dry the seed out. Immediately pack in moist sphagnum or coir and store in refrigerator. This will serve as stratification. Plant out after last freeze in spring. If you dry them out, a fair percentage of seed will require a warm moist 3 month stratification followed by a 3 month cold stratification in order to germinate.

Best yield from Acer seed is when it is stratified without ever having been dried out.