Raynn’s Juniper Projects - Procumbens Nana & Pfitzeriana Aurea

[ShadyStump]

Seems to me you're doing alright so far.

fertiliser maybe?

Yes, looks like an Osmocote style fertilizer to me. Safe to leave.

didn’t want to make a mistake so left it.

The great part about bonsai is that any mistake that doesn't kill the tree can, in time, be overcome.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

some enthusiastic photoshopping

the foliage is way too big/tall/dense for that trunk but it was already looking a bit cloud-like with the rough photoshop job, and to be honest, I don't think I even know what a natural large juniper looks like... so this styling may not work well for this kind of tree, it just seems tree shaped

Edit - took some more off (virtually) , this seems better, but very round, would not want it to look look that neat, still feels maybe too cloud like?

The individual foliage itself now possibly looks too large. Maybe it needs a much thicker trunk/pair of trunks for this sort of thing...

 

[Japonicus]

Will this happen to the whole plant or just new growth?

Generally the colour will be more even and vibrant. Based on 1st picture, it looks to be light deficient to me.
I will snap a shot of what the foliage should look like on procumbens when healthy over the whole "tree".
Sometimes this comes from overcrowding with pots of these crammed against each other. Outside or edge
pots can get more light on the bits cascading over the side, on a side or two. Also they can be on shelves
in transit and lose chlorophyll from lack of light, while other bits get more light.


Your palate is wide open for your artistic design to begin taking shape.
I have to say though, this picture looks more evenly healthy.
1st pic the top side look more pale, and could've been a lighting issue for the camera exposure.
When not in sunlight, take an aerial photo looking straight down with no flash please.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

1st pic the top side look more pale, and could've been a lighting issue for the camera exposure.
When not in sunlight, take an aerial photo looking straight down with no flash please.

I’m in agreement about the top side, the cascading part on the right seems darker, the tops more uneven, hopefully it’ll settle in

My phone not the best for photos coming out right, had to warm this one up a lot and increase the overall green tint to get it more accurate to how I’m seeing it. Could get my dslr out but this is quicker and isn’t too far off i don’t think.


Its cloudy here and early evening (8 pm) so nice even diffuse light which is handy!

 

[RoadManDenDron]

OK, for pre mix many here use ibuki which is akadama, lava, pumice mix

Also people use kaizen mix

Both have different drainage and moisture retention options

Personally I would stick with the nursery soil until your ready to get it into a proper pot

it is really great to see how enthusiastic you are and I hope you have a long and successful journey!

Please forget the theory for an hour or 2 and go make some mistakes on whichever of these new trees you care least about, make it look like a bonsai to you, Try out some techniques, most importantly have fun!

 

[ForeverRaynning]

OK, for pre mix many here use ibuki which is akadama, lava, pumice mix

Also people use kaizen mix

Both have different drainage and moisture retention options

Personally I would stick with the nursery soil until your ready to get it into a proper pot

it is really great to see how enthusiastic you are and I hope you have a long and successful journey!

Please forget the theory for an hour or 2 and go make some mistakes on whichever of these new trees you care least about, make it look like a bonsai to you, Try out some techniques, most importantly have fun!

Thanks for the UK pre-mix suggestions! Will definitely keep it in what it's in now for at least this year.

The bonsai bug has definitly bitten me, at least with this procumbens! I too hope I have a long and successful journey haha.

Hmm… well I do have that pesky common juniper the pfitzer needs to get some mature foliage going before I can even think about what to do with it styling wise and the rest of my trees are saplings. To be honest I’m having fun just looking at and thinking about my procumbens, so thats great. May go have a look in the garage, I know we’ll have some kind of wire in there I can torture entertain the communis with, though my dads plan was put it in a pot and let it be a shrub so its not wasted. Think I’m all bonsai-ed out for the day though.

 

[Japonicus]

I’m in agreement about the top side, the cascading part on the right seems darker, the tops more uneven, hopefully it’ll settle in

My phone not the best for photos coming out right, had to warm this one up a lot and increase the overall green tint to get it more accurate to how I’m seeing it. Could get my dslr out but this is quicker and isn’t too far off i don’t think.
View attachment 549616

Its cloudy here and early evening (8 pm) so nice even diffuse light which is handy!

Should pinch out those tufts of brown foliage and check for spider mites. This is accomplished by holding a white piece of paper under a couple of branches and tapping down on the branch which knocks some mites off. They're tiny so watch the paper for micro dots crawling. If you just see debris and dust, swipe across the paper with your finger. Live mites will leave a streak. That's how fine they are. The 1st sign of mites is off colouring, sort of less vibrant dull looking foliage. Chlorosis is another cause but more yellowing. Often an iron deficiency if in good light.

Here's the right side of a nana I will finish thinning in July.
I did not pot it this year and do not plan to repot next year so I can take advantage of its vigour and thin it pretty good.

Here's another nana started from a 1 gallon or 3.78L. nursery can. I planned to repot this year so I did not thin the foliage too much last year. After recovery, I can do some work, but mostly just letting it coast and regrow roots. I can come in now and remove downward growing foliage which helps to define a pad. But the extra foliage acts as solar panels collecting and storing energy from the Sun.
A junipers strength is in its foliage.
This one I've had about 24-25 yrs.
Again, I had planned to repot this Spring so I let it get and stay a little bushy. Also removing the top 1/3 of tree next year.


Getting the idea now, bushy in need of thinning = safe to repot.
Grant it these are all bonsai, and not in a grow out stage but the foliage is robust. If I had a nursery can...I do have a nana in ground to give an example of runners...

...at the bottom is a runner exemplary of extra vigour.
My shimpakus have tons of runners but with nana it seems that runners are few or rather more toned down once you've began the transition to bonsai save for escape/sacrifice branches you postpone cutting.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

check for spider mites

Small orangy brown one looks mite-ish and was moving, green ones larger, some kind of aphid maybe or just bigger mite? Either way - it has bugs.

Also tried pinching off some of the brown tips, got most off I think, some have really thin and a bit elongated brown stems then green leaves so pinched some of those off but not 100% sure which bits to pinch, but at least got the obvious stuff out, I think.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

Need to work out how to get rid of them, seems we have pretty tight rules on pesticides/insecticides/miticides and whatnot here in the UK. @RoadManDenDron any experience with getting rid of these?

I know bug clear ultra 2 states it deals with them (and the eggs) but also saw the RHS tells you to avoid using it (exit, wait no, 2 seems fine, bug clear ultra with no number seems to be the problem one). Theres a fruit and veg ultra but that doesn't seem to work for eggs. No doubt other brands as well (tbh i looked at the RHS list and then looked up the strongest ) , not sure what’ll do the eggs, I assume theres eggs, but I don’t know, its not like I found many bugs at all but with the foliage being dense they may have just fallen into the foliage rather than out onto the paper. I might be overthinking it.

 

[Japonicus]

This size circled, is pretty much the size of spider mites that suck the juice out of the foliage.
If they just wipe away it is just specks of dirt basically. If they smear, then I would suggest you hose off
the foliage. Repeat that every few days, but we don't want to keep the soil wet too long.
It needs the dry/wet cycle to get oxygen, (to breathe).
This is why the more coarse bonsai soil is more healthy. Bugs are generally ok, and no reason for alarm.
Spiders are ok and many are predatory against the harmful ones.
The larger one does have the shape of an aphid, but I can't really tell.

For good hygiene of the juniper, spraying with Horticultural insect killing soap (safe soap, not related to household soap)
which controls aphids and mites is a good practice. It is safe for the environment, and not so hazardous to us. Ingredients are
potassium salts of fatty acids which breaks down the outer shell of the insect allowing it to dehydrate and die.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

View attachment 549655
This size circled, is pretty much the size of spider mites that suck the juice out of the foliage.
If they just wipe away it is just specks of dirt basically. If they smear, then I would suggest you hose off
the foliage. Repeat that every few days, but we don't want to keep the soil wet too long.
It needs the dry/wet cycle to get oxygen, (to breathe).
This is why the more coarse bonsai soil is more healthy. Bugs are generally ok, and no reason for alarm.
Spiders are ok and many are predatory against the harmful ones.
The larger one does have the shape of an aphid, but I can't really tell.

For good hygiene of the juniper, spraying with Horticultural insect killing soap (safe soap, not related to household soap)
which controls aphids and mites is a good practice. It is safe for the environment, and not so hazardous to us. Ingredients are
potassium salts of fatty acids which breaks down the outer shell of the insect allowing it to dehydrate and die.

Hmm, maybe not spider mites them, I was zooming in to get a clearer picture but could see it moving on the paper without much trouble and my eyes can be pretty bad.

Yeah read people hose them off, that and shade but with conifers that seems like a bad idea as well. Will see if I can find that kind of soap anywhere, may also ask my grandad if he has anything, he has a decent size allotment and greenhouse so will no doubt have had to deal with mites before.

Is it worth treating it as a precaution? How quickly can things do downhill if it is mites?

 

[Japonicus]

Widely available at big box stores like Lowes, Walmart, Amazon.com and Home Depot here in the states.
It is also available in premixed ready to spray which is best for just a few plants.
I'm not saying you have spider mites, nor that you need to just go all out and spray.
Start with hosing off if you have an outdoor hose and nozzle. Not too harsh a jet, but up close on shower
setting, supporting the foliage with one hand while you spray, will knock them down.
Check for mites again twice a week is good. Repeat hosing off if necessary. If you see an increase
in number of mites, or if the foliage starts looking dull, you're in deep, and past time to spray.

Mites can wreak havoc in a few short weeks. A month is a long time and they multiply.
Yours is not in a downward spiral, emergency. Do not spray so much that the soil gets watered with the poison.
Some drifting onto the soil is ok. Wetting the soil is too heavy. You can even cover the soil with a plastic grocery bag
cut to wrap around and tape edges down in a place or two if you decide to wet foliage to point of runoff.
You see how you will be multi tasking in this hobby...

 

[RoadManDenDron]

The potassium bug soap mentioned is my first call with many bugs, aphids etc

If that doesn't work I either add some neem oil to the mix

Or as a last resort I use actual bug killers (very carefully at night when the bees are gone) normally I would advise buying the concentrate because the diluted bottles don't go very far when your collection starts to build up.

Bug killer stuff generally doesn't kill spider mites as they arachnids, I bought stuff from amazon last year called SMC (spider mite control) black bottle with red writing I think targeted for people who grow smelly bonsai in their lofts if you catch my drift

It did the job but it appears to just be oil in water solution, it did smell quite nice but I'm not using it as perfume so that shouldn't matter

I'm not suggesting you try this route and I am yet to test it myself, but there are predatory mites available that don't eat your trees but live off spider mites, their eggs and larvae and when they are not available pollen, again I'm not advising this just so you have the info!

Regular misting with a fine spray also seems to be keeping them away for me as they prefer dry conditions

 

[ForeverRaynning]

The potassium bug soap mentioned is my first call with many bugs, aphids etc

If that doesn't work I either add some neem oil to the mix

Or as a last resort I use actual bug killers (very carefully at night when the bees are gone) normally I would advise buying the concentrate because the diluted bottles don't go very far when your collection starts to build up.

Bug killer stuff generally doesn't kill spider mites as they arachnids, I bought stuff from amazon last year called SMC (spider mite control) black bottle with red writing I think targeted for people who grow smelly bonsai in their lofts if you catch my drift

It did the job but it appears to just be oil in water solution, it did smell quite nice but I'm not using it as perfume so that shouldn't matter

I'm not suggesting you try this route and I am yet to test it myself, but there are predatory mites available that don't eat your trees but live off spider mites, their eggs and larvae and when they are not available pollen, again I'm not advising this just so you have the info!

Regular misting with a fine spray also seems to be keeping them away for me as they prefer dry conditions

Thanks, I’ll have to pick up some
Potassium soap, I know neem oil is available at wellness stores and stuff so may pick some of that up if needed.

I know which amazon spray you mean, I saw that myself but didn’t seem to have many reviews so didn’t really look into it.

Bio control sounds like they need greenhouse temps to survive when I was reading up on stuff last night.

If misting helps keep them at bay thats good to know too.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

Managed to remove those bits of twigs from it and some very minor roots from the trunk (like 2-3 really small ones that pulled out the soil easily or won’t in the soil at all). It has 2 thick roots coming out that I’d probably want to remove at some point but I left those the heck alone as I know now is not the time for root work plus that would almost certainly count as a big insult, even with all the smaller roots, but idk where those come from, they may all come from the two thicker trunk roots I can see for all I know. Suppose they may work for nebari but just seems to be those two.



Then there’s these two branches crossing the trunks, also haven’t touched them yet but thinking they need to go? Thicker one of the two is on the inside of a curve, the thinner one less so but not sure if i could wire it so it wasn’t crossing? (obviously not now!)

Also uh, ignore the bit in the bottom left, that was a bit of stick i cut off but a bit less cleanly that I’d have liked… I’m sure it’ll be fine.


Already looking cleaner! I need to make sure I keep my enthusiasm in check though and not touch anything else unless I know its safe to do so. Probably shouldn’t keep taking it out the pot to work on it but hard to get into all the nooks and crannys with the pot in the way

Tried to look on the underside of the leaves and do see black specs but don’t think I saw anything moving. So don’t know if they were mites or just tiny specs of dirt.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

Picture of that wound, its bigger than I thought, not sure if i slipped and caught the main trunk when cutting the little stick off or what (looks like it, and i do remeber the scissers slipping and trapping my finger on the first go at it sonit may have been then), just hope it heals ok… trying to not beat myself up over it but it is making me anxious and upset cause i feel like I’m going to get in trouble for hurting it. But it was an accident and theres no point crying over it now, whats done is done. Just don’t want to have dissappinted anyone. But thats just me being too sensitive and taking things too personally. Its just everytime I try and do something myself, especially involving tools, something like this always seems to happen and then I always feel guilty and upset about it.
Guess this is my signal to leave it the heck alone from now on.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

Just read this about procumbens bark from a thread on here back in 2013 - “I think that we are discounting a beautiful feature of the procumbens. When they are older, they get a nice rough, aged bark look. Which can be a very attractive look on a tree.”

So once it grows up, the callus it will no doubt form to close this wound may blend in better if the surrounding wood roughens, plus the trunk will thicken over time, possibly making the callous look smaller? Or would the callous grow in size with the trunk? Think I’m just trying to convince myself its not as big a deal as my brain’s making it out to be

Part of me now wants to just remove those two crossing branches between the trunks now I’ve already insulted it, seems like less of a big deal now.



It is done, and I think it looks better and it still has a ton of foliage so it's not like I’ve absolutely massacred it. I even made sure to leave the cascade that I won’t be needed because that's a lot of foliage and possibly the healthiest bit atm. It’s made me happier and I think I made an ok choice. Now I can leave it to heal without anything particularly bugging/tempting me like those two branches were.

 

[Japonicus]

Fertilize it. It will be fine but quit taking it out of the pot.
The fine feeder roots at the ends of the roots are responsible
for the majority of uptake.
Nothing wrong with scarring, Jin, or Shari this time of year.

not sure if i slipped and caught the main trunk when cutting the little stick off or what (looks like it, and i do remeber the scissers slipping and trapping my finger on the first go at it

You’re not cutting MY hair

 

[ForeverRaynning]

Will the fertiliser pellet things in the soil not be doing that? Though I suppose we don’t know how long they’ve been in there for, may be used up by now. Whats best to use (I hear miraclegro mentioned a lot)? How often to fertilise? Will definitely be leaving it in the pot from now on, haha.

About to get some horticultural soap, neem oil and a pressurised sprayer off amazon, may be overkill but its not that expensive overall and I assume they’ll last if I need to use them again over the years. So if bugs are causing an issue that should hopefully take care of them. Will add miraclegro to the basket as well if that’ll work ok.

I’m certainly not the most co-ordinated, especially with fine motor skills, thats for sure

EDIT - we have a sprayer in the garage so can take that out the basket, also have miracle gro lawn feed but no idea if thats the same as the normal stuff just with a different label, so may get the normal stuff just to be safe but will do some reading incase they are the same.

 

[ForeverRaynning]

Right - Miracle Gro all-purpose, potassium soap and neem oil bought, sprayer located.