Quercus Faginea (Portuguese Oak)

[BobbyLane]

You make a good point, thanks. Sorry I was unaware of your replies till now.



I did actually do that wiring btw, but I feel my wire wasn't strong enough.
I even did double wiring of my thickest, but unsure whether its made a large difference or has stayed in that position.

You make a good point. It would seem wasteful to put in ground, but I am just thinking of the thickness that the leader has to put on, can only imagine it taking a few years.
Perhaps bigger pot, again, as you suggested when you saw it.
Maybe next year, bigger pot, 2-3 years in that pot to stretch its legs, get some proper girth on.
Sound like a plan?

you want the branches going up n out towards the light. branch tips facing up to the light. maybe you didnt use thick enough wire and it needs to be done again. yeh a training pot should be fine, sort of like the ones i have most of my trees in.

 

[ConorDash]

you want the branches going up n out towards the light. branch tips facing up to the light. maybe you didnt use thick enough wire and it needs to be done again. yeh a training pot should be fine, sort of like the ones i have most of my trees in.

Indeed. I think it’s the fact I know that this tree won’t really need styling or touching for a number of years, that I’ve not been trying very hard with it’s styling.

You are right with what you said though, no reason it can’t look good in the meantime.
Perhaps I’ll redo once all leaves have dropped (certainly make the job easier). Also yes I think I’ll need thicker wire, biggest I got is 4mm aluminium. 2-4mm copper would probably do it, given it’s stronger.

 

[ConorDash]

Nothing going on here, just few pics of the nice brown leaves, none removed. Will remove later in the season and do minor clean up. The job of this thing is to grow.
I do still have to debate repotting to a large pot to aid in the growth (opinions welcome on that).

DSC_0076 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0077 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

This is the trunk which I need to fatten and make look, a smoother transition from the main stump.. This task I feel may be a life long one, however. I was previously given advice of letting grow for 5 years but I think i'd need to plant in the ground for that.
DSC_0079 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

DSC_0080 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

 

[BobbyLane]

yes regardless of the plan being to let grow, i would still get in at some point and remove all the brown leaves to see whats going on. problem areas can be corrected. you could even find you might want to try a design change and go shorter or stick to plan whatever.

 

[ConorDash]

yes regardless of the plan being to let grow, i would still get in at some point and remove all the brown leaves to see whats going on. problem areas can be corrected. you could even find you might want to try a design change and go shorter or stick to plan whatever.

Oh for sure, i remove the leaves later in the season. I just like it full of brown for the moment, looks nice . Ill have a deeper look to make sure i'm not missing something bad but for now I like them on, then ill remove them all.
Thanks.

Interesting you say this "you could even find you might want to try a design change and go shorter". Good point. thanks.

 

[BobbyLane]

hard to tell, but might be a smaller tree here
in this case the emphasis wouldnt be to grow out the trunk but instead to focus on building branch structure. then an initial styling could be done to set some primary lines for a broom oak.

 

[ConorDash]

hard to tell, but might be a smaller tree here
in this case the emphasis wouldnt be to grow out the trunk but instead to focus on building branch structure. then an initial styling could be done to set some primary lines for a broom oak.

Hmm wow, thats very interesting indeed... I think I need to put my hat on and look at this properly and discuss. I feel its been discussed at length already in this topic but my head is not in it right now.
I like your idea, because like I say, yes it would be great to have its current leader transition better from the main stump but that may well be 5+ years of planted in the ground. Ill be moving house within that time so it will have to be moved... Just seems a lot of long term risk involved in that way.
So your idea may well be great...

 

[Potawatomi13]

but my head is not in it right now

GOOD! Big trees good.

 

[ConorDash]

Better pics, after having removed all those leaves by hand. Took an hour of careful picking, so as to not remove any buds!
These are good clear pics which I'd like to use to think about its future a bit more.

Initial plan was to let it grow and allow that trunk to get fatter, so it transitions from the main stump to the trunk, better. That would seamingly take perhaps 5 years+. However, it was only just potted in to this pot when I bought it last year. Its a small pot, so I would need to repot before that time could even start, it may become more like 6-7 years+. Along with that, there is the risk of "life", bad weather, disease and insect damage. And so, another approach may be better.

DSC_0102 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0104 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0108 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0113 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

@rockm I remember you originally posted the approach in here, to allow it to grow more. Given what I have said above, and bearing in mind my climate may not grow oaks as vigorously as yours (Im new to the species, its a Portugeuse oak, perhaps I am wrong) would you still recommend that approach or have any other thoughts?

Interested in all thoughts and opinions

 

[BobbyLane]

the branch on the right thats going downwards, is there any chance you can wire it upwards and have it somewhat mirroring the left leader, you can have two leaders and just shorten left one, as its too long n lanky, then make the right on slightly below it. its a simple concept seen on many trees and i think this will look better, like what im doing with these hornbeams
25909780888_0282c5ecc0_o (1) by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20181205_132604 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_7374 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

its a much shorter route to a credible tree having two leaders that go up and are of relative thickness to the branches on rest of tree, in a broom style as i mentioned somewhere else

 

[ConorDash]

Difficult to see exactly which you mean on the trees, as they are different directions so unsure which is "left".

Example:


This is assuming shortening of the existing branches, as they would ALL be cut back largely (they are in dire need but have not touched yet as I had no future image yet).

 

[BobbyLane]

ok before you cut anything, wire up the main right branch upward beside the left leader, similar to harry harringtons hornbeam

put movment in both leaders, wire everything with no crossing branches
then put movment into all secondary shoots coming off the two main leaders, there will be lots you dont need. try and do this first, then we will see what you can cut off

time to go and put some work in buddy

 

[Gustavo Martins]

This is what I see in your tree

Very crude virt on phone

 

[ConorDash]

This is what I see in your tree
View attachment 221138
Very crude virt on phone

Yes I understand that, just want to make sure it looks like an oak. Don’t want to fall in to pine territory with leaf pads and “neatness” if you know what I mean?

When I bought this and somewhat now, it was wired and styled in a pine fashion. It’s not what I want with the tree.
But when I finally go for a style and start working on it, a lot will be cut back any way.
Thanks for the advice, it is a good looking virtual, I think similar to something bobby once showed me.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Yes I understand that, just want to make sure it looks like an oak. Don’t want to fall in to pine territory with leaf pads and “neatness” if you know what I mean?

When I bought this and somewhat now, it was wired and styled in a pine fashion. It’s not what I want with the tree.
But when I finally go for a style and start working on it, a lot will be cut back any way.
Thanks for the advice, it is a good looking virtual, I think similar to something bobby once showed me.

One sided interesting idea. Have Bonsai Techniques II by Naka? Some great pics of OLD broken Oaks in it to inspire. Remember one thing; dead wood needs to be visible or largely useless to you. As it ages and deteriorates will add value(beauty, not monetary)to tree.

 

[ConorDash]

One sided interesting idea. Have Bonsai Techniques II by Naka? Some great pics of OLD broken Oaks in it to inspire. Remember one thing; dead wood needs to be visible or largely useless to you. As it ages and deteriorates will add value(beauty, not monetary)to tree.

I’m sure there are.. but at those prices, I’m afraid I’ll never own those books, unfortunately.
I’d like the deadwood to be visible, along with the mature bark on the stump, visible just under a head of canopy. Whether that canopy be on both sides or one.. to be honest, both approach’s are perfectly good with me.
What would you do?

 

[BobbyLane]

you dont need to buy a book to look at old oak trees

theres a few different ideas on here now, but there comes a time when you have to do the work yourself rather than relying on virtuals of ideas what appeal to others.you can go out into any park or forest and see oak trees, there are thousands of images of deciduous trees or naturalistic bonsai trees all over the web, countless images of old oaks on my flickr even.

 

[BobbyLane]

here's another
IMG_4512 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

and another
IMG_4341 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

more
IMG_4342 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_4665 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_8322 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_8369 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_9605 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

personally i wouldnt go with the one sided approach, as you might end up also killing the roots on the side you remove the branch from.

 

[Potawatomi13]

you dont need to buy a book to look at old oak trees

True. However sometimes easier.

What would you do?

Huge question. As Ryan Neil sometimes says: I've looked at this tree for years. And we wonder, and ponder, and question, then one day lying in bed an idea hatches from hiding place. Often personally work a part of tree then later maybe couple, 3 years do another. Unless very simple tree or seedling usually not all done at one time.
Answer is cannot say without tree in own hands. Is too valuable to waste any USEFUL part IMHO.

 

[ConorDash]

Hello again,

So I'd like to get a few opinions on this tree, if anyone would like to share. Having reread this thread, the options seem to be:

- Let grow - this would require a good number of years, 4+ perhaps, repotted in to a large pot or ground. This also comes with risk of health to the tree due to the number of years (the general risk of health, nothing special), also I hope to buy my own house and move, so that would be a problem.

- Create a shorter tree - This is what I am leaning towards, because I dont see such a massive advantage of waiting the time and dont like the idea of moving house and digging it up.

Some recent pics:

DSC_0351 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0348 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr
DSC_0355 by Conor Dashwood, on Flickr

I did a little mock up of something... let me know if this seems a bad idea or silly?
Blue is branches to be formed, grown. Green is growing out a branch for thickening, red are cuts to make. Hope its illegible.



Would appreciate any thoughts and opinions, would love to get some different ideas . Letting it grow out is still a possibility.