Pricing

[rockm]

I suppose I'm an outlier WRT this topic, but I get more pleasure looking at a pot with a tree in it, even if it isn't a "finished" tree.

Great more pots for me!

 

[Perplexody]

I suppose I'm an outlier WRT this topic, but I get more pleasure looking at a pot with a tree in it, even if it isn't a "finished" tree.

My stance is that if a tree is in a nice pot, regardless of the refinement of that tree I get more enjoyment out of it on my bench.
So I find myself spending decent money on pots and end up with young material filling them.
Of course I save some of my best pots for my best material as well and they stay in nursery pots until ready

 

[JackHammer]

This is an interesting concept. While it seems there is an abundance of pots at the top and bottom, I believe you are pointing to a hole in the market at the upper-middle. Meaning - the market for pots that will actually be used and are very high quality.

There are complexities around this as most bonsai will stay outside and if a pot is made poorly, it will remove itself from use in as little as one season. (Freeze thaw cracking)

There is the issue of price. If a mug costs $2, why would a ceramic bonsai pot cost $500-2k? We all know the answer to this but regarding the expendable cash in everyones pocket, we collectively (also known as "the market") have decided that we will not buy very many of those, regardless of quality.

There are also a limited number of ceramicists that would be able to make the pieces and the expectations for those pots would be quite high. Even if someone could guarantee quality, a cracked pot at $700 would be my last expensive pot for outdoor use.

There is the issue of design. If someone is charging a lot, there are high expectations for design. Color, texture, etc. Of course, these things may add complexities to the durability of the pot.

It also takes a while for the artistry to catch up. Bonsai has grown extensively in the last few years but the growth of the ceramics hasn't kept up. This will come with time, just as there are lots of high quality ceramicists in Japan, they will come in other nations.

My takeaway; I think you are correct, there is likely a hole in the market. For any highly skilled ceramicists out there; if you can make a pot at a reasonably affordable price at $500-2k, that has great design (color, texture, etc.) will withstand elements, there is a great market that will support your work.

This seems exactly the market that Sara Rayner and others work in so while I think there are options currently, it also seems like the market would be able to support additional skilled ceramicists.

 

[rockm]

This is an interesting concept. While it seems there is an abundance of pots at the top and bottom, I believe you are pointing to a hole in the market at the upper-middle. Meaning - the market for pots that will actually be used and are very high quality.

There are complexities around this as most bonsai will stay outside and if a pot is made poorly, it will remove itself from use in as little as one season. (Freeze thaw cracking)

There is the issue of price. If a mug costs $2, why would a ceramic bonsai pot cost $500-2k? We all know the answer to this but regarding the expendable cash in everyones pocket, we collectively (also known as "the market") have decided that we will not buy very many of those, regardless of quality.

There are also a limited number of ceramicists that would be able to make the pieces and the expectations for those pots would be quite high. Even if someone could guarantee quality, a cracked pot at $700 would be my last expensive pot for outdoor use.

There is the issue of design. If someone is charging a lot, there are high expectations for design. Color, texture, etc. Of course, these things may add complexities to the durability of the pot.

It also takes a while for the artistry to catch up. Bonsai has grown extensively in the last few years but the growth of the ceramics hasn't kept up. This will come with time, just as there are lots of high quality ceramicists in Japan, they will come in other nations.

My takeaway; I think you are correct, there is likely a hole in the market. For any highly skilled ceramicists out there; if you can make a pot at a reasonably affordable price at $500-2k, that has great design (color, texture, etc.) will withstand elements, there is a great market that will support your work.

This seems exactly the market that Sara Rayner and others work in so while I think there are options currently, it also seems like the market would be able to support additional skilled ceramicists.

Huh? I'd take issue with just about everything here, but I don't know where to start. There are plenty of high end and middle market bonsai potters in the west. More now than ever before. There are literally dozens in the U.S. alone. The number of high quality bonsai potters in Japan has been in decline for decades. Production there is a shadow of what it was only 20 years ago and getting smaller by the day.

 

[Gabler]

I would say there's a dearth of low-end pots. A dishwasher-safe stoneware coffee mug is cheaper than a plastic bonsai pot of similar volume. It would be nice to find bonsai pots for sale at the dollar store next to the coffee mugs. Upfront cost is a significant barrier to entry to the hobby for those without disposable income.

I've always assumed the high cost of bonsai pots—or rather the low cost of coffee mugs—is due to the economy of scale. I remember watching a YouTube video wherein a guy made his own hamburger from scratch, and it cost him something like $1,500. I can't seem to find the video.

 

[Srt8madness]

I would say there's a dearth of low-end pots. A dishwasher-safe stoneware coffee mug is cheaper than a plastic bonsai pot of similar volume. It would be nice to find bonsai pots for sale at the dollar store next to the coffee mugs. Upfront cost is a significant barrier to entry to the hobby for those without disposable income.

I've always assumed the high cost of bonsai pots—or rather the low cost of coffee mugs—is due to the economy of scale. I remember watching a YouTube video wherein a guy made his own hamburger from scratch, and it cost him something like $1,500. I can't seem to find the video.

So it's a video of a guy who wastes money

I kid I kid. Would be nice if pots were cheaper but such is life. A $4 pond basket is reasonable enough.

 

[rockm]

I would say there's a dearth of low-end pots. A dishwasher-safe stoneware coffee mug is cheaper than a plastic bonsai pot of similar volume. It would be nice to find bonsai pots for sale at the dollar store next to the coffee mugs. Upfront cost is a significant barrier to entry to the hobby for those without disposable income.

I've always assumed the high cost of bonsai pots—or rather the low cost of coffee mugs—is due to the economy of scale. I remember watching a YouTube video wherein a guy made his own hamburger from scratch, and it cost him something like $1,500. I can't seem to find the video.

A dearth of low end pots? I've not noticed that. They're all over the place. They're never going to show up at the dollar store, Walmart maybe...
do a search on etsy on new ceramic bonsai pots. You'll get multiple hits on stuff like $40 for seven glazed Chinese pots. Wigerts has some for like 10 bucks.

Ceramic Bonsai Pots - Wigert's Bonsai

*** THE MEASUREMENTS POSTED IN THE ITEM DESCRIPTION ARE OF THE 'INSIDE' OF THE BONSAI POT ***

www.wigertsbonsai.com

There are many more places to dig around and find them.

 

[Boulder Bear]

I suppose I'm an outlier WRT this topic, but I get more pleasure looking at a pot with a tree in it, even if it isn't a "finished" tree.

I cldnt agree more!!! Unless our trees are either getting ready for a show or are in a show, they’re in some form of development, whether it’s structural ramification!

That’s TOO much time to not be in a pretty pot that exemplifies the beauty already imparted to the tree!

I’ll post some pics as examples and let others decide if they agree or disagree…but that’s my 2 cents (and that’s probably all it’s worth)

 

[Boulder Bear]

So it's a video of a guy who wastes money

I kid I kid. Would be nice if pots were cheaper but such is life. A $4 pond basket is reasonable enough.

When penjing 1st gave birth to bonsai, some Japanese wood, even pot their mame in abalone shells.

I’ve got a buddy who has a gorgeous literati and a cowboy boot!!
I potted some of my 1st trees in plastic cups (recycle reuse).

I’m of the opinion, it should be more for OUR pleasure than worrying about how others will dissect our little treasure.

I’ve always been a rockhound, and I’m of the opinion that bonsai trees look absolutely stunning and natural stone.
That’s why I started this crazy adventure to begin with: there were no real Stone Bonsai Plaza, wella Golf from my first (VERY humble) yamadori!

Regardless how anyone may feel about Ryan Neil, that’s one of the things I am most greatly appreciated about his approach to teaching Bonsai, calling Joe tree, design it, and enjoy it as you will (though to degree they do seem to be more appealing while adhering to some of the most basic a Bonsai rules…3s to 2s, 1-wire for 2 branches when ever possible, etc)