Plumbers putty

[0soyoung]

Can you explain more about "not rolling over" a wound. What exactly does it do?

The photo is a cross-section of a trunk that was damaged which shows this process - notice the xylem 'rings'. Growth across a branch pruning wound occurs in the same way.

The 'lip' we call the callus appears as it does because of the new epidermis (young bark). The cambium is a line of immediately under that curved surface. Just as elsewhere on the stem, the cambial cells divide to create more tissue. Cells toward the inside become xylem (wood) and cells on the outside become epidermal tissues (bark).

One can non-destructively verify this basic structure firsthand, by making two cuts into the bark beside and over a section of the 'lip' and lifting the slice of bark just as in making a layering girdle. We all know that the bark easily separates from the cambium, so the surface you see is where the cambium is (promply cover this is your favorite cut-stuff and the residual cambium will, in fairly short order, regenerate all the tissues you just removed).

Much of the lore seems to view the 'lip' as tissue that is pushed across the wound. But each new bit is added to the front of the span. New bits are not added at, say, the edge of the lip and old bark and pushed into the 'chasm' of the wound.

The ultimate closure of the wound is just like fusing two trunks. The final bits of cambium end up as xylem cells (wood) and the cambium is again a continuous ring around the stem covered by bark, which in time looks just like the older bark you show in the pic of a closed peach tree wound.

... clear as mud.

 

[Smoke]

The ultimate closure of the wound is just like fusing two trunks. The final bits of cambium end up as xylem cells (wood) and the cambium is again a continuous ring around the stem covered by bark, which in time looks just like the older bark you show in the pic of a closed peach tree wound.

How could you not call that "rolling over the wound". That is exactly what you explained. Now matter what you call it, it's still the growing trunk engulfing a wound, growing or rolling it's still the same thing. I live in a simple world and science sometimes makes things much more confusing and colmplicated than it needs to be.


SEMANTICS...

 

[0soyoung]

How could you not call that "rolling over the wound". That is exactly what you explained. Now matter what you call it, it's still the growing trunk engulfing a wound, growing or rolling it's still the same thing. I live in a simple world and science sometimes makes things much more confusing and colmplicated than it needs to be.


SEMANTICS...

Yah, I was afraid of that.

'Rolling' is fun slang, but nothing is rolling or being rolled - new layers of bricks are being laid.

 

[Smoke]

Yah, I was afraid of that.

'Rolling' is fun slang, but nothing is rolling or being rolled - new layers of bricks are being laid.

Maybe its more akin to a "wave"? How about that? ...or..the "Blob"

 

[0soyoung]

Maybe its more akin to a "wave"? How about that? ...or..the "Blob"

View attachment 78565 View attachment 78566 View attachment 78567 View attachment 78568 View attachment 78569 View attachment 78570

ITS ALIVE!! ITS ALIVE!!

 

[sorce]

Can you explain more about "not rolling over" a wound. What exactly does it do? Is this callus rolling over the old dried wood?
View attachment 78520

This is an example of a completely closed wound on a pear tree.
View attachment 78519

Partridge poop is the magic sauce!

Sorce

 

[SU2]

I've used plumber's putty on a palmatum and didn't like it. It became hard as rock and there was no callus formation after 6-8 wks. I've also used it on the chopped ends of swamp cypress. Honestly, I'm not sure if I would use it again.

Well crap, I chose to use Plumber's Putty on a swamp BC I boxed-up yesterday, not just the top-cut but like (5) spots on the trunk where I'd knob-cut the old limbs off:

[glad I posted that, can see I didn't seal 100%.....this was done at like 10p in artificial lighting lol, I should've double-checked first thing today though...better 24hr late than never!]

I posted this not exactly to back the use of plumber's putty, but to show extremely experienced (and you can't get much more experience that an established Japanese bonsai nursery with literally thousands of trees) growers don't use the prepared, specialized bonsai wound sealants. Almost anything that's inert, flexible and capable of making a seal can be used IF you want to use it. I don't seal wounds much, just the bigger ones on recently collected trees. haven't found a need to do it. Trees heal all the time without it.

Firstly, thanks a ton for posting this thread!! Has been bugging me since last night that, maybe, having used Plumber's Putty wasn't a good idea- the smell on my fingers after having washed them thoroughly kept me worrying...finally googled 'bonsai plumber's putty' and this was right up top, not only did I find what I wanted to hear on my first hit but by someone I wouldn't doubt for a second in such matters And my experiences (however short in duration and narrow in scope/species) are definitely in-line with what you've ^ said, I used to use Elmer's Wood Glue (and did on a few of my BC's...stuff took days to fully cure and had some runs :/ ) but then stopped, even after massive carving jobs on bougies & crapes where I expose tons and tons of cambium-->heartwood I don't treat and they seem fine- have heard this being okay from enough people I know are knowledgeable that I never seal but, with BC's (which I just learned about last month), I suspect sealing is WAY more important, especially large areas like tops of trunk-chops - am so happy to've found your thread because I *really* want this specimen to survive I think it has the potential to be my best tree if it only survives!! It was collected from the same swamp as my most vigorous recently-collected BC was, so I've got that going for me
(it's also my only BC out of 6 to have a knee!)

Wear gloves when using the stuff, it has chemicals in it that aren't very good

Damnit! I didn't apply it til like midnight last night and was half-asleep (didn't get my tree containerized & on-shelf til ~10p), kneaded it up w/o gloves and no matter how much I washed my fingers after I couldn't get rid of that smell in fact it's what got me worried about this in the first place / led me to finding this thread....can't help but wonder how toxic it would be in relation to, say, generic 'Dap' caulking or something of that nature, the type of thing you really *should* wear gloves when touching but, really, doing so w/o gloves on occasion probably isn't really that bad in the scheme of what we intake in-general (or at least I tell myself so ;p )

 

[Arcto]

+1 for duct seal

I got the tip from Nick Lenz. Another tip is to use hemorrhoid cream before the duct seal. I have been told that it is especially effective for maples. There is something in it that makes them heal faster.

I’m surprised that 2 1/2 Years into this thread, no one has explained why treating your hemorrhoids before duck sealing the maples gives any benefit. Maybe bad science here!

 

[GailC]

How fo you all get the duct seal to stick to the tree? I've tried it and plumbers putty and neither work with a damn.
I don't like the Japanese stuff in a tube but at least it stays where I put it

 

[just.wing.it]

How fo you all get the duct seal to stick to the tree? I've tried it and plumbers putty and neither work with a damn.
I don't like the Japanese stuff in a tube but at least it stays where I put it

Wet your fingers
It will stick to the drier surface.
I keep a bowl of water next to me when I use it.

 

[Dav4]

Wet your fingers
It will stick to the drier surface.
I keep a bowl of water next to me when I use it.

What he said...

 

[GailC]

Wet your fingers
It will stick to the drier surface.
I keep a bowl of water next to me when I use it.

I tried that but the wound is wet, should I let it dry a bit first?

 

[Dav4]

I tried that but the wound is wet, should I let it dry a bit first?

Yes. It's much more likely to stick if the bark around the wound is dry.

 

[parhamr]

How fo you all get the duct seal to stick to the tree?

I’ve had luck by mixing neem oil into the duct seal. This has been easier with the oil and seal gently heated, approaching 80°F.

This makes the seal more tacky and pliable. Then, the tree and its wound have to be as dry as possible.

 

[0soyoung]

I’ve had luck by mixing neem oil into the duct seal. This has been easier with the oil and seal gently heated, approaching 80°F.

This makes the seal more tacky and pliable. Then, the tree and its wound have to be as dry as possible.

The issue is preserving moisture in the cambium, IMHO. I wouldn't care if it is so 'wet' that putty/whatever won't stick,
CODIT
Alternatively, put some Saran/plastic film over it if you feel you must (i.e., OMG!).

 

[wireme]

@Arcto Obviously we want to be able to sit comfortably while doing the work right?

 

[parhamr]

The issue is preserving moisture in the cambium, IMHO

To clarify: I recommend drying the cut site to apply the paste/putty/seal, as I’ve found it frustrating trying to get it to stick to a wet surface.

YMMV

 

[SU2]

Alternatively, put some Saran/plastic film over it if you feel you must (i.e., OMG!).

rofl I've certainly grabbed my stuff like that (painter's tape is my go-to if gardening-tape is too-thin, my roll of it is very narrow like 1/2), definitely works for a while before the adhesives fail but by then the wound has usually stopped hemorrhaging moisture!

 

[SU2]

To clarify: I recommend drying the cut site to apply the paste/putty/seal, as I’ve found it frustrating trying to get it to stick to a wet surface.

YMMV

Absolutely! This is the reason I had to use putty instead of my usual Wood Glue on BC wounds, they're just too-wet that the wood glue won't cure quickly and ends up runny, thankfully plumber's putty was incredibly simple to form-fit around every wound and I know it'll come off nice and easy whenever I choose, only concern is toxicity to the tree but feel like there would be more anecdotes of it being bad if that were the case :/