Picea pungues 'Super blue' - advice

Krone

Krone

Shohin
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Hey all!
I've just got this one on the cheap (9e from the 'nobody will buy me' isle), Picea pungens 'Super blue'. 40cm/16icnh tall from the soil level to the top, relatively nice taper, some of the trunk hidden under the soil.
Would love to hear some advice on styling / design and gather even more information on how to take care for spruce bonsai.
20200124_172934.jpg
 
I also like to know, I didn't do much to mine (only pruned a few branches each year).
 
This is quickly becoming one of my favorite species for bonsai. It doesn’t hurt that I also spend most of my weekends in picea pungens forests at 9,000+ feet elevation in Colorado Ski Country. But I digress.

Repotting: You need to be at least as conservative, if not more so, with the roots than you would be with a pine. Blue spruce do not respond particularly well to aggressive root work in my experience. There is debate as to whether spring or late summer repotting is “best.” To me, this indicates that either season is a viable option. I prefer spring.

Pruning: You must prune back to a bud. Otherwise the branch will die.

Watering: Do not let it dry out too much. These prefer to stay somewhat moist. I use “Boon” mix for pines and junipers; for Blue Spruce I add akadama so that the ratio is 2:1:1 akadama:lava: pumice instead of 1:1:1.

Have fun enjoying the beautiful foliage :)
 
I really like the foliage. Also, you can not really see it from the picture (have to learn how to take a 'proper' picture of the tree) the trunk and the taper is really nice.

Can i prune / style it now or is best to wait? Any style suggested according to the picture?
Regarding the pruning, does it matter to which bud should i cut back as long the branch still have a bud?
 
Krone said:
I really like the foliage. Also, you can not really see it from the picture (have to learn how to take a 'proper' picture of the tree) the trunk and the taper is really nice.

Can i prune / style it now or is best to wait? Any style suggested according to the picture?
Regarding the pruning, does it matter to which bud should i cut back as long the branch still have a bud?
Click to expand...
Doesn’t matter which bud.
 
I am just in mid-process of cleaning it up.
Have removed the top layer of soil to reveal all of the trunk, have cut off really weak branches, removed needles from the trunk and so on.
There are couple of branches that are alive but have 0 buds on them (maybe have fallen of during the transport to the hardware store where i bought them of something). I assume that is safe to assume ( :) ) that this kind of branches have 0 chances of surviving or producing new buds?
Thanks!
 
Krone said:
I am just in mid-process of cleaning it up.
Have removed the top layer of soil to reveal all of the trunk, have cut off really weak branches, removed needles from the trunk and so on.
There are couple of branches that are alive but have 0 buds on them (maybe have fallen of during the transport to the hardware store where i bought them of something). I assume that is safe to assume ( :) ) that this kind of branches have 0 chances of surviving or producing new buds?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
I'm not a Spruce Person, but I think you decide where you want branches before you chop off the weak sisters. Odds are that they are just shaded by a big brother and might return your love if you chopped off Big Bro instead. Gotta be easier than thread grafting!
 
Nice little spruce.

I would not remove any more foliage. If possible, try to remove less than 25% of foliage and less than 25% of roots at any one time. Then allow the tree to recover (grow again) before another round of pruning.

I would do the repotting first. Then wait at least one season, until every branch has a lot of shiny new buds growing. I removed about 50% to 75% of the root system of a very root bound nursery spruce. It took 3 full growing seasons for the spruce to recover enough to have new growth on every branch. It was year 4 before the next round of pruning.

Younger trees, such as yours will recover more quickly. But with spruce, you best bet is you repot in your best season (spring or late summer, which ever works for you) then leave them alone for at least one year. Then you prune, and style, then leave them alone a year or two.

You can wire pretty much anytime except spring. Wiring is not that stressful.

Middle to late summer is when routine pruning happens. Ignore suggestions to "pinch" young shoots. When pruning you must leave a bud or more on each branch, or the branch will likely fade away.

That's pretty much all I do with my spruces. I have 3 P. pungens, a P. glauca, a P. orientalis, and a P. omrika. THey are all treated the same.

Potting mix, I use a mostly inorganic mix, some fir bark in it, other than that, pumice and lava. Akadama is fine if you have it.
 
Thanks for the advice! Should i repot this one in a training pot or can i move it in to the 'bonsai' pot?
 
Seems you DO have the healthiest nursery spruce there ever were!

Sorce
 
sorce said:
Seems you DO have the healthiest nursery spruce there ever were!

Sorce
Click to expand...
If you are serious, great. Hope it's not sarcasm. :)
The thing with this tree is that i don't have any idea in which direction should i style it because of the fact that the upper part doesn't have that many secondary branches.
Also one of the reason that i will pot it first. Just not sure if i should pot it or plant it into the ground for couple of years.

Would really appreciate any ideas/suggestions regarding the possible designs.
 
Yes, if I were you, at your preferred season for repotting (what ever is normal in your area, spring, summer, what ever the locals in your area do)

At your repotting time, move it to a shallower training pot, box, either bought or constructed. I would use a 40 x 40 x 13 cm training flat with a mesh bottom. (Anderson Flats in the USA), but I bought a case of them 10 years ago and have them on hand. You can make a grow box, or you can find a sufficiently large colander. Or a very large bulb pan.

Give the tree 12 months to recover unmolested. They need to have good roots before resuming pruning. You will know it has new roots by abundant new buds and back buds on the branches.

Wiring is not very stressful. You can wire just before repotting, or 3 or 4 months after repotting. Just do not jostle, jiggle or vibrate the trunk and roots while wiring. Otherwise, just leave it alone for 12 months after repotting.
 
I'm serious. Hats off to wherever you're getting these from!

Far as design, same as the other, don't discount a good long term plan.

It's just, I have 2 of these myself, bought cheap, one styled for "now", one I'm hesitant to style cuz I don't like the other!

Then I got the one that I did Hack Back, built some movement and taper, and I really like it.

I think we get caught up in styling telephone pole trunk for "now", rather than making a great tree in the long run.

Which, and I say again, with MORE emphasis since these ARE so healthy....
You only get one chance to allocate this vigorous energy.

I think this becomes that much more important with spruce, because they are so slow, technically, you can't decide later to do something different, the entire tree will have changed by then.

Sorce
 
sorce said:
I'm serious. Hats off to wherever you're getting these from!
Click to expand...

Everything i have, i bought in random, local regular gardening centres. We don't have specialized nurseries around here. Each of them was discounted heavily. I am far from the point when i would be comfortable enough to but expensive tree just to mess it up during my learning period.
Just today i bought 6 Chinese junipers for around 35e (around 70% off). Each of them has trunk width around 3-4cm (1 - 1.5 inch), relatively large specimens (at least for this amount of money imo) with thick and healthy (again, imo) foliage. Will post some images tomorrow so you guys could tell me if they have potential.
 
Leo in N E Illinois said:
Wiring is not very stressful
Click to expand...

True. Application.

It is important to remember that eventually the wire needs to come off, and if at all effective, especially with spruce, I feel removal is stressful, since in some sections, only tiny fragile bits of live vein are what keeping important things alive. It sure is stressful to me!

Usually, small gauge wire at the ends need to come off before the rest.
Then secondary then the first heaviest wire.

Going in, you can also only wire all the first branches down to appropriate angles. Especially since those will be the first that won't easily bend soon.
That'll give you a good idea of where everything is at too, what's possible.

Sorce
 
Krone said:
Thanks for the advice! Should i repot this one in a training pot or can i move it in to the 'bonsai' pot?
Click to expand...
Training Pot...... Moving into a bonsai pot will atomatically cause the rate of growth to slow, sometimes significantly.
 
How much bigger should the training box be in relation to the diameter of the current pot?
And also, the Anderson Flats have the mesh bottom. Was thinking to incorporate something like this into my own build, but wouldn't the roots started to grow out from the bottom through the mesh?
 
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