Picea pungens 'Globosa' -Where to begin?

[WNC Bonsai]

@TN_Jim have you done the deed yet? The buds on mine are starting to swell so I need to do it this week before they pop all over the tree. Trouble is I am low on pumice and the east coast distributor can’t get more until mid-April. I may have to use Permatil instead, wonder how that will work—any suggestions @Leo in N E Illinois ?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

My go to for a pumice substitute has been Perlite. It is lighter, and takes a little hustling to find a coarser grade than what the big box stores will stock. I found I have to go to orchid supply dealers or to hydroponic grow shops. Lately, for at least 27 states, the hydroponic grow shops have become fairly common. I am not familiar with permatil.

Spruce like mildly acidic media, so as long as you avoid crushed limestone as a main ingredient, your ingredient choices are not overly critical. I like having some fir bark in the mix to give the mycorrhiza something to eat.

Key is to shift for particle size. If you do not sift, the air voids will not stay open, as the mix settles the fines will clog up the porosity.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

My go to for a pumice substitute has been Perlite. It is lighter, and takes a little hustling to find a coarser grade than what the big box stores will stock. I found I have to go to orchid supply dealers or to hydroponic grow shops. Lately, for at least 27 states, the hydroponic grow shops have become fairly common. I am not familiar with permatil.

Spruce like mildly acidic media, so as long as you avoid crushed limestone as a main ingredient, your ingredient choices are not overly critical. I like having some fir bark in the mix to give the mycorrhiza something to eat.

Key is to shift for particle size. If you do not sift, the air voids will not stay open, as the mix settles the fines will clog up the porosity.

Permatill is a heat expanded slate produced near Charlotte NC. It is just another type of haydite. I generally use it in my soil mix with pumice and bark in a 4:3:2 ratio. Since it is produced locally I can get it easily and the NC arboretum uses it in their bonsai mix without pumice so I think I would be on safe ground.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Well, I got mine repotted today—no photos as my iPhone shut down when I tried to take the first shot and went into low power mode. When it wakes up again I’ll shoot an after shot. Any way I ended up removing about 1/2 the lower portion of the rootball which did not have a lot of roots in it, most were in the upper section. I had a #7 squat nursery pot that I cut down to 6” for the repot. I combed out the long circling roots and cut them back, then excavated the center of the root ball as @River's Edge recommends. After installing tie down wires I laid in a bottom layer with a hill in the center to fill my rootwork then plopped the tree in and settled it in on the pile. I put in some more soil mix then tightened down the tie downs then filled the rest of the pot, working the mix in with a large chopstick. I watered it until it ran clear from the drain holes then placed it in the shade with my Norway spruce I repotted about a week ago. Once they have a chance to adjust I’ll pull them back into the sun. I am hoping these will both recover without issues as they are very healthy trees. The CBS is covered in buds just expanding and ready to pop as soon as we get a string of really warm days and nights above freezing, which are predicted for the next couple weeks here.

 

[River's Edge]

I agree the

Here’s what probably the best side of root flare is looking like. You can also see reverse taper caused by the burlap twine choking it -this was a really disappointing find. Does anyone feel this area will fill out some now that it’s free of the stranglehold, or just what it is..?View attachment 232153

some more...

View attachment 232156
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I agree the reverse taper will improve. Let the lower branch grow out and keep it longer for a couple of years to aid in this respect. Keep extra foliage and length on this branch in the initial styling. Along with managing the top apical growth it will help to thicken the lower portion of the trunk.
Looking forward to seeing it potted up.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Ok, my iPhone finally recharged and let me turn it on again so I got a photo. The pot in this case is 7” and there is 2” of freeboard above the soil level so the roots are 5” deep. I figure that in the next two years I’ll hbr the roots and get them down to about 3-4” thick so they can then fit in a ceamic pot. The only work I have done other than repotting is removing dead and weak branches plus few that I know will not be used later. Here is the aftermath photo:

 

[River's Edge]

Ok, my iPhone finally recharged and let me turn it on again so I got a photo. The pot in this case is 7” and there is 2” of freeboard above the soil level so the roots are 5” deep. I figure that in the next two years I’ll hbr the roots and get them down to about 3-4” thick so they can then fit in a ceamic pot. The only work I have done other than repotting is removing dead and weak branches plus few that I know will not be used later. Here is the aftermath photo:

View attachment 235283

Foliage looks great and the buds as well. Be sure to rotate regularily this summer for even sun exposure and if all is well consider some basic wiring to open up the interior for better exposure.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Foliage looks great and the buds as well. Be sure to rotate regularily this summer for even sun exposure and if all is well consider some basic wiring to open up the interior for better exposure.

Thanks, it may need more thinning out to compensate for the root reduction and as you say to get more light to the interior. I wanted to wait and see how well it bounces back from the root work and also to see what it looks like once the buds pop and extend. It is a very strong specimen literally covered in buds.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks, it may need more thinning out to compensate for the root reduction and as you say to get more light to the interior. I wanted to wait and see how well it bounces back from the root work and also to see what it looks like once the buds pop and extend. It is a very strong specimen literally covered in buds.

I agree and would not thin further at this time, as you say let it grow. Every needle you retain adds to the engine of recovery for the roots. If a few decline due to root work so be it. At least you will be giving it every bit of energy producing potential it has by keeping the foliage.

 

[TN_Jim]

@TN_Jim have you done the deed yet? The buds on mine are starting to swell so I need to do it this week before they pop all over the tree. Trouble is I am low on pumice and the east coast distributor can’t get more until mid-April. I may have to use Permatil instead, wonder how that will work—any suggestions @Leo in N E Illinois ?

Not yet, aiming for Friday. I wish I was seeing the growth you mention, but because of not and not knowing the history of this one it makes me even more inclined to get into better substrate.

It is definitely alive and I feel that I am about to especially shock the hell out of it -potentially not in the best health I aim to keep a close watch.

 

[TN_Jim]

I had not read further than my previous reply while putting the little one to bed, awaiting slumber...the greens that be are present, are and have been exceptionally good for this.

@Cofga, can you explain further why you did not full bare root? That angle has much interst and caught me off guard. Do you plan to jin the apex?...
I’m gonna fbr for better or worse and glad you didn’t for at the very least juxtaposition-sake

@River's Edge

 

[WNC Bonsai]

While I have seen posts by folks who have bare rooted conifers, most will tell you not to do this (with the exception of hinokis and maybe hemlock). The method I use follows that outlined by @River's Edge . He suggests removing the lower portion of the rootball and excavating the center of it the first year, then do a hbr each of the following years to get the tree into a bonsai pot. This may be a more conservative approach but it gives you a better chance of not killing the tree. Here is his description of the process:

When i purchased my first EZO spruce it was in a 10 gallon nursery pot. I was advised by the seller a professional Bonsai artist to repot in the spring before buds swelling and to stage the process as follows. For the first repot i removed the excess soil from the top,( not disturbing the finer roots closer to the surface too much) and then reduced from the bottom, reducing the overall height as desired. Cut off downward roots. Cut the bottom flat. I then excavated the centre of the root ball partway creating a hollow about halfway through the remaining root ball. Next i lightly combed the soil out of the edge around the outside. Cutting away circling roots that were too long. Keeping as many roots as possible to fit in the flat. Placed and secured in an anderson flat. When placing the tree, the usual mound of bonsai soil in the centre and twisting gently to fill the centre concave area. Then using a chopstick, work the new soil between the side roots gently to ensure no air pockets. I believe it is always important to wire the tree in securely. Mist the tree and roots when working every 10 minutes or so.
Waited a year, then performed 1/2 HBR on one side.
Waited a year then performed 1/2 HBR on the other side.
This removed all the nursery soil over two complete growing seasons and replaced with Bonsai Mix. The tree never skipped a beat from repotting. I was advised that the tree was to be very healthy at the beginning of each stage or I was to delay until recovery was complete. The suggestion was that spruce were not as easy to repot as pines. One should not be as aggressive with the roots and misting during the process and for the aftercare was important.
Since that time i have used the same process for Sitka and Engleman spruce with no problems.
I have collected in the late summer early fall and repotted successfully. However, the caveat is that i provide a greenhouse ( frost protection) and extra humidity for aftercare. So artificially, i provide a longer root recovery period before dormancy. And I live in an area that has milder winters, longer falls. Zone 8b, lots of natural humidity as well.
The other extra consideration beyond humidity for spruce aftercare is the transition from shade to full sun after collection and repotting. It should be slower and much more gradual. Nick Lenz made a point of this in his book Bonsai from the Wild.

 

[TN_Jim]

I had not read further than my previous reply while putting the little one to bed, awaiting slumber...interesting reason and subsequent approach.

@Cofga, do you plan to jin the apex?...long term plan?
I’m gonna fbr for better or worse and glad you didn’t for the sake of juxtaposition.

@River's Edge, thanks for your thoughts & experience as well -everyone’s input here has been tremendously insightful

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I had not read further than my previous reply while putting the little one to bed, awaiting slumber...interesting reason and subsequent approach.

@Cofga, do you plan to jin the apex?...long term plan?
I’m gonna fbr for better or worse and glad you didn’t for the sake of juxtaposition.

@River's Edge, thanks for your thoughts & experience as well -everyone’s input here has been tremendously insightful

Yes, I eventually will jin the apex and also some of the branches. There are way too many branches right now so that some will need to go and deadwood usually contributes the design.

 

[TN_Jim]

Apologies for the delay on this one -new job, overtime, long commute and luckily moving soon.

I started work on this tree again 4-9-19. At the time there was still no indication of new buds, the foliage did not look in the greatest of health, and tips and needles all over were brittle. I was worried that this work would be its demise, but leaving in b&b would be certain death. This week there are healthy new buds all over the tree which, for now, is a great indication of success.

Upon getting through the beachball of muck, I found a restricted and compact root system that was only 8-9'' in diameter. The only advantage to this was it horizontally fit in the box (~6x13x15) easily. I tried teasing out these roots but the mass was so confined I ended up sawing it (~half+ to fit vertically) and cleaning up further with pruning shears and knob cutters. It was kind of difficult to judge how much foliage I removed -guessing a bit more than a third, with straight and obvious branching being the focus as well as making devisions of 3+ into 2. Getting light inside was also a consideration as well as balance to root removal. In hindsight, I probably should have been more conservative with root and foliage removal, but honestly am not sure of this.

Now I have it on the west side of the house getting a fair amount of shade but I am unsure of the best means of aftercare. Should I wait before easing it into the sun, wind? How long till feed? Should I top dress it with sphagnum? I've never had a spruce -theres no issue with watering the foliage is there? Some of these question may have already been addressed above, need to go back and review all comments.
Thanks much





Here, the root mass on the ground is everything that was removed.


Will get some better photos of the tree soon without the yard as a backdrop

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Boy that was a lot to cut off, fingers crossed. On mine I cut off about half the roots and got it into a chopped down nursery pot filled with pumice/Permatill/bark mix. I have been keeping it in part shade facing west so it only got morning sun for 3-4 hrs. Last week it started opening a few buds so I moved it to a location that gets about 6 hrs sun and now all the buds are popping. I plan to fertilize with Miracle Grow this week—just waiting for the roots to dry out a little after the last bout of rain. Fortunately mine was in a typical nursery pot mix of compost and wood chips.

Here is the tree as of 1 minute ago, lots of nice little green buds opening.

 

[sorce]

Spruce
Are
Tough
As
Nails.

Sorce

 

[TN_Jim]

 

[TN_Jim]

wisdom & forbearance...need work here on my end...

 

[oddirt]

Spruce
Are
Tough
As
Nails.

Sorce

@sorce , this is the first acrostic I’ve seen on this site. And the only poem not a haiku. Brilliant.