BoostedBonsai
Mame
yeah i thought bout it but i used a plastic recycle bowl out the bag
PH lvl 7.5 on my water? is that passable or hard?
- Thread starter BoostedBonsai
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yeah i thought bout it but i used a plastic recycle bowl out the bag
Japonicus
Imperial Masterpiece
IDK if your trees in pots will do fine with water that hard or not.
There are different species that prefer more soft, species that prefer more alkaline...IDK.
So I've never tested pH nor TDS from a typical spigot/faucet attached filter.
I kept a reef for years and finally called the money pit quits. I always strived for 0ppm so was running
RODI filter. I still drink the RO water to this day. I can taste the difference between 1 and 3ppm, it's nasty.
But 250 and 300 probably not a lot of taste difference ya know? If it sucks to drink it sucks to drink.
You'll have to ask someone who has one of those filters how little it changes the TDS reading.
I doubt they're going to remove carbonate hardness much, but metals will cut down with carbon for sure.
Mostly those filters are carbon and mechanical, so not a big drop in hardness I bet. Very limited.
Found it post 6 here by seanj https://www.thereeftank.com/forums/...35914.html?highlight=calculate+rejection+rate
Not that it pertains to our hobby that much, just finishing my previous post accurately.
So there's the formula...
You can find my 100g acrylic build on that forum searching my screen name.
hemmy
Omono
so i did a TDS test and this is what i got, i beleive its not that bad just like 7.5 ph is not that bad but not great
320 TDS is below the upper limit recommended for greenhouse use in the below publication. I like using the greenhouse limit since my plants get about the same amount of rainfall as indoor greenhouse plants.
From your 1st post, it sounds like the only negative impact from your water has been hardness buildup up on leaves/pots and possibly losing some azaleas to nutrient deficiency. I’m guessing your water is only marginally “hard” and you could mitigate the impact on Azaleas by keeping them moist (to avoid mineral precipitation), using acidic fertilizers, and including organic substrate. Next time you get discolored leaves, foliar feed a micronutrient fertilizer for a few applications and see if that greens up the leaves. If so, you know that you need to correct the nutrient deficiency in the substrate.
But to really characterize your water, you need to know the alkalinity, hardness, Calcium, and magnesium. You can get hardness from a free test offered by some filter companies. There are cheap test kits for alkalinity and hardness. If those tests show high values, then it may be beneficial to get a more accurate analyses. If you decide to use acid to lower your alkalinity, you can find calculators online by searching “AlkCalc”. Unfortunately, most do not include vinegar as an option. But I have a modified sheet for 5% white vinegar.
Bailey et al 1999. Water considerations for container production of plants.
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BoostedBonsai
Mame
ahh well that informative ima save that, but yes i should be okay its not good but i think im okay, do u know if perhaps mixing some acidic soil in my mix maybe can help counteract my waters ph?320 TDS is below the upper limit recommended for greenhouse use in the below publication. I like using the greenhouse limit since my plants get about the same amount of rainfall as indoor greenhouse plants.
From your 1st post, it sounds like the only negative impact from your water has been hardness buildup up on leaves/pots and possibly losing some azaleas to nutrient deficiency. I’m guessing your water is only marginally “hard” and you could mitigate the impact on Azaleas by keeping them moist (to avoid mineral precipitation), using acidic fertilizers, and including organic substrate. Next time you get discolored leaves, foliar feed a micronutrient fertilizer for a few applications and see if that greens up the leaves. If so, you know that you need to correct the nutrient deficiency in the substrate.
But to really characterize your water, you need to know the alkalinity, hardness, Calcium, and magnesium. You can get hardness from a free test offered by some filter companies. There are cheap test kits for alkalinity and hardness. If those tests show high values, then it may be beneficial to get a more accurate analyses. If you decide to use acid to lower your alkalinity, you can find calculators online by searching “AlkCalc”. Unfortunately, most do not include vinegar as an option. But I have a modified sheet for 5% white vinegar.
Bailey et al 1999. Water considerations for container production of plants.
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Very generally speaking
I have water that tests: conductivity 480, total hardness 210 (rated hard-anything over 300 is very hard), calcium hardness 160, PH 7.9.
I struggled with issues related to water quality for years until I switched to a rainwater collection (1000 gallons storage and RO augmented system. I suffered from nutrient unavailability issues and serious mineral deposits in soil that would really jack up the PH. If one accepts we are essentially growing trees hydroponically (using and ebb and flow type system) and one studies the best hydroponic growers, water quality is the paramount basis for plant health and manipulation--all things stack upon it. I am all for keeping things simple, and I truly wish I could successfully keep my trees using my well water straight from the tap but for me, with my needs, it's flat impossible to grow plants well. One point not mentioned much in this thread, or at least I did not see it is, commercial growers deal with this issue all the time and many locally where I am at, inject acids and also use their fertilizer regime (which is also injected and usually continuous) as a medium for keeping everything mostly right. Big fertilizer companies( like Scotts) help tailor the fertilizer mix in alignment with their water quality adjusting and compensating to target the grower's needs, which can be quite varied. The problem is deciphering this to meet our goals which usually don't include growing giant tomatoes or hyper robust nursery stock.
I struggled with issues related to water quality for years until I switched to a rainwater collection (1000 gallons storage and RO augmented system. I suffered from nutrient unavailability issues and serious mineral deposits in soil that would really jack up the PH. If one accepts we are essentially growing trees hydroponically (using and ebb and flow type system) and one studies the best hydroponic growers, water quality is the paramount basis for plant health and manipulation--all things stack upon it. I am all for keeping things simple, and I truly wish I could successfully keep my trees using my well water straight from the tap but for me, with my needs, it's flat impossible to grow plants well. One point not mentioned much in this thread, or at least I did not see it is, commercial growers deal with this issue all the time and many locally where I am at, inject acids and also use their fertilizer regime (which is also injected and usually continuous) as a medium for keeping everything mostly right. Big fertilizer companies( like Scotts) help tailor the fertilizer mix in alignment with their water quality adjusting and compensating to target the grower's needs, which can be quite varied. The problem is deciphering this to meet our goals which usually don't include growing giant tomatoes or hyper robust nursery stock.
yenling83
Omono
Nice article from Bonsai Tonight on lowering PH. I use a Dosatron and PH Down to lower my water's PH.
https://bonsaitonight.com/2019/08/16/how-to-lower-the-ph-of-your-water-to-keep-bonsai-healthy/
https://bonsaitonight.com/2019/08/16/how-to-lower-the-ph-of-your-water-to-keep-bonsai-healthy/
BoostedBonsai
Mame
i see yeah what kind of RO system you use ? is something like this affordable one would that work ? i dont have many plants so i dont need a huge system
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Japonicus
Imperial Masterpiece
@Shoshinsha not to confuse you on filters, but since you asked what RO system Crust was using
just remember that if you decide to invest in one, that the GPD rating (gallons/day) for me boils down to
how many minutes it takes to get 1 gallon, and it varies with water temperature...a lot.
I'm running a 125 GPD membrane with (another point to consider) a 4:1 ratio (for every gallon I net
4 gallons are rejected by the membrane to the drain) and it takes me yesterday about 13 minutes to get a gallon
of drinking water. Back in the Summer it took me 9 minutes. So if you get a 50 GPD unit it more than doubles
how long it takes per gallon. Also if the stated waste ratio of the membrane (which rating can be swapped out when
you also swap the flow restrictor to matched rating of membrane, rebuilding a system is super easy) has ratings of
more similar values like 2:1, or 1:1 waste ratio, you will waste much less water, easier on the water and sewer bills.
Don't even consider a 6:1 waste ratio if not for just the sake of the planet.
The lower the rejection rate the less the membrane will remove which equivalates to, for you, a higher TDS reading
of the finished product.
The lower the micron number on pre filtres like 1µ or 0.5µ the longer your membrane lasts, but faster the pre filtre fouls.
The bigger values like 5µ allows larger particles to be trapped in the membrane...
It's a trade off that you learn the values of each, and how they affect each other.
Beware of vendors on eBay charging enormous shipping costs. Bottom line, I can help you build/choose
an RO system for the least investment...but an investment on your equipment...that will save you the most money and time
when it comes time to replace the filtres, if you decide to get a unit at some point.
just remember that if you decide to invest in one, that the GPD rating (gallons/day) for me boils down to
how many minutes it takes to get 1 gallon, and it varies with water temperature...a lot.
I'm running a 125 GPD membrane with (another point to consider) a 4:1 ratio (for every gallon I net
4 gallons are rejected by the membrane to the drain) and it takes me yesterday about 13 minutes to get a gallon
of drinking water. Back in the Summer it took me 9 minutes. So if you get a 50 GPD unit it more than doubles
how long it takes per gallon. Also if the stated waste ratio of the membrane (which rating can be swapped out when
you also swap the flow restrictor to matched rating of membrane, rebuilding a system is super easy) has ratings of
more similar values like 2:1, or 1:1 waste ratio, you will waste much less water, easier on the water and sewer bills.
Don't even consider a 6:1 waste ratio if not for just the sake of the planet.
The lower the rejection rate the less the membrane will remove which equivalates to, for you, a higher TDS reading
of the finished product.
The lower the micron number on pre filtres like 1µ or 0.5µ the longer your membrane lasts, but faster the pre filtre fouls.
The bigger values like 5µ allows larger particles to be trapped in the membrane...
It's a trade off that you learn the values of each, and how they affect each other.
Beware of vendors on eBay charging enormous shipping costs. Bottom line, I can help you build/choose
an RO system for the least investment...but an investment on your equipment...that will save you the most money and time
when it comes time to replace the filtres, if you decide to get a unit at some point.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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@hemmy -Thank you for posting the Bailey et al 1999 article. This is the most useful article I've seen in a while.
Your note about people out west should rely on the greenhouse grower recommendations is good. Those of us that normally get rainfall at least once every 10 days are probably just fine following the Nursery recommendations.
What you grow makes a BIG DIFFERENCE.
I was going to write a long essay on which species grow better in which conditions, but realized I don't remember enough off the top of my head to do it. I would need to "hit the books" for references, and just don't have the energy for that today.
The point is, some trees tolerate high total dissolved solids with no problem. Some, like carnivorous plants and blueberries, will simply die if calcium levels, or TDS and high alkalinity are above their tolerance.
One way to deal with high TDS water is to grow trees that tolerate such conditions.
Your note about people out west should rely on the greenhouse grower recommendations is good. Those of us that normally get rainfall at least once every 10 days are probably just fine following the Nursery recommendations.
What you grow makes a BIG DIFFERENCE.
I was going to write a long essay on which species grow better in which conditions, but realized I don't remember enough off the top of my head to do it. I would need to "hit the books" for references, and just don't have the energy for that today.
The point is, some trees tolerate high total dissolved solids with no problem. Some, like carnivorous plants and blueberries, will simply die if calcium levels, or TDS and high alkalinity are above their tolerance.
One way to deal with high TDS water is to grow trees that tolerate such conditions.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
You just cannot beat rain and ro water,but better be adding some cal mag!
Agree this is hydro in a lot of cases.
I ended up taking a hydroponic course
What you shown I believe is not a RO filter. A cheap RO system usually includes at least one sediment filter and one RO filter, the cheaper ones are slower and don't believe their claims for high output.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
This works good if you have 40psi or above water pressure.Was only $150.
if water pressure is lower they sell a in line pressurizing pump that is somewhate expensive.
I added a third polishing filter for completely pure deionized water......
Attachments
BoostedBonsai
Mame
yeah ive been lookin at that one its 90$ rn a bigger one is 150$ thats what im sorta looking into right now
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Ah your right I think 75 unit is cheaper
BoostedBonsai
Mame
yeah i think thats what ima go for how long have u had it for? 90$ aint bad do u get 3 gallons an hour?
Japonicus
Imperial Masterpiece
The lack of minerals may not be the best bet for plants.
Certainly not designed for drinking either, as the resin is not food grade nor tested so.
The higher your PSI the better the membrane will work up to say 65 PSI.
Unfortunately the booster pumps are as expensive as the RO unit often.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Damn. I was thinking 56 posts on a pH thread meant a fight for sure!
But you motherfuckers actually care about this nonsense that much!
Please read my Walter quote!
Sorce
But you motherfuckers actually care about this nonsense that much!
Please read my Walter quote!
Sorce
BoostedBonsai
Mame
Damn. I was thinking 56 posts on a pH thread meant a fight for sure!
But you motherfuckers actually care about this nonsense that much!
Please read my Walter quote!
Sorce
hey i care for my trees now! i want the best for them
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