Parsons Juniper Progression - Zone 7b - Piedmont North Carolina USA

[sbarnhardt]

Just take it with a grain of salt, Vance is like a strangler fig, Very strangling but beautiful in a strange way.

We all goof, and bonsai is a thing that takes years to master. I'm still learning every year, but I've killed trees, made things ugly, set things back-BUT what'll set you apart is if you keep going and learn and don't make the same mistake over again.

Thanks for the thoughts! I accept that I fouled up, but I'd be less than honest if I said I thoroughly understood what/how I did. I guess what would reinforce things for me is if I could see a picture of what it "should have been" like. Does that make sense? I "thought" I was good before from reading. Now I'd really like to "see" what I should have been doing. Do you have any suggestions? I ask respectfully or as much so as I know how to.

 

[sbarnhardt]

If you want to hear what really happened you should know just for your sake. Regroup and move forward, this I agree with. It was mentioned in a post previously that you had to get growth forming in closer to the trunk but for some reason you did not see this and did the exact oposite, you started cutting growth out of the interior of the tree. With Parsons Juniper this is an issue you can not afford to do, they do not back bud as well as The Chinese Junipers. I don't think this tree is beyond hope but you need to change your way of doing things and make sure you understand what you are doing and why you are doing it. If you don't know for sure ask and please for all our sakes ask before you do it not after it is done.

Mr. Wood, I was typing the response above this while you were typing this particular one. Please don't think ill of me. My point, since you said here I went ahead and did the opposite, is all of the cutting of growth out of the interior of this thing was done "last summer" and not just after you'd said not to do so. I hope you see I didn't purposefully ignore your suggestion. I really do want to succeed in this even if it doesn't look so much like it at times. I hope you and I are OK here??

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Thanks for the thoughts! I accept that I fouled up, but I'd be less than honest if I said I thoroughly understood what/how I did. I guess what would reinforce things for me is if I could see a picture of what it "should have been" like. Does that make sense? I "thought" I was good before from reading. Now I'd really like to "see" what I should have been doing. Do you have any suggestions? I ask respectfully or as much so as I know how to.

This is a very common beginner haircut. The early urge to starting a bonsai is to "open it up" so you can see the branches. This is exactly what you did (we all have, even Vance; just a longer time ago).

The correct approach is exactly the opposite: you should have cut what you left, and left what you cut. Your bonsai is what isn't shaded out in the 4th photo.

Let it grow. If anything appears in the bare areas close to the trunk, keep it. Feed, lots of sun, and let it grow this year.

 

[sbarnhardt]

This is a very common beginner haircut. The early urge to starting a bonsai is to "open it up" so you can see the branches. This is exactly what you did (we all have, even Vance; just a longer time ago).

The correct approach is exactly the opposite: you should have cut what you left, and left what you cut. Your bonsai is what isn't shaded out in the 4th photo.

Let it grow. If anything appears in the bare areas close to the trunk, keep it. Feed, lots of sun, and let it grow this year.

I will! Thank you for the comment.

It does have some growth down nearer the trunk. I'll post a pic of it. Is this what you mean by "back budding

I don't seem to be able to get the pic to upload. It looks like it's uploading, gets to where it says 100 percent, but the pic never shows up. I'll try another day for the pic. Suffice it to say there is some of what I'll call buds in a number of places along the limbs and down next to the trunk. I'll keep that up over the summer and see what happens thinking that's what you mean.

 

[Vance Wood]

Mr. Wood, I don't want you to think I unabashedly ignored your suggestion/s. All this "ruining" of a tree you see in the pictures was done last summer and not subsequent to your suggestions recently. I truly thought I'd done something good and was looking forward to moving forward with it this summer.

I would however like to ask what you mean by the comment "This kind of thing always amazes me." I don't mean this comment/question to be in a disrespectful way and hope it hasn't come across that way, but I would like to understand what it is you mean.

You had not made it clear, or even suggested it, at the point this remark occurred, that the work that had been done on the tree happened last year. With that in mind my reason for saying it becomes irrelevant. However; if you need to know, it boils down to a not so simple explanation that defines some people's responses to instruction around here on occasion. Specifically instructions I have been trying to relay concerning the cultivation of Mugo Pines where I believe I have been specific on a detail of information just to find that someone has done something contrary to that instruction, even after being told not to do what they just did, and then hum and ha ,trying to weasel out of culpability.

 

[sbarnhardt]

OK Mr Wood! Thank you for your guidance. I look forward to learning from you in the future!!

 

[sbarnhardt]

Mr. Van Fleet, I "think" I've figured out the reason I couldn't get this pic to upload earlier. I'm thinking the board has a size limit that apparently the pic was too large for. Anyway, I reduced the size by half and it worked.

So, back to the term "back budding", is this what is meant by that term?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Mr. Van Fleet, I "think" I've figured out the reason I couldn't get this pic to upload earlier. I'm thinking the board has a size limit that apparently the pic was too large for. Anyway, I reduced the size by half and it worked.

So, back to the term "back budding", is this what is meant by that term?

Yes, the forum has a 4mb file size limit, and if the photo is larger, it just spins until it times out. I've lowered the file size on my camera to accommodate...not crazy about the compromise, but it's easier to share pix.

Your tree is back-budding indeed. This is good news.
-Rub out the growth in the crotches of branches (red X).
-Perserve the buds that appear along branches, for use in building new branches and pads (circled in green).
-In a few weeks, you'll be able to reduce the long branches (yellow lines) and work with the new branches which are just starting now.

 

[Vance Wood]

Your photo shows some very interestin and positive things: a lot of back budding. Let them grow as much as possible and be careful not to damage them. The way the tree is now this may have turned out to be a fortunate accident where you may be able to use the growth that you saved, as dead wood down the road as you regorw the tree from the new growth that is starting to show. As a side bar I really did not mean to give you a hard time.

 

[sbarnhardt]

Your photo shows some very interestin and positive things: a lot of back budding. Let them grow as much as possible and be careful not to damage them. The way the tree is now this may have turned out to be a fortunate accident where you may be able to use the growth that you saved, as dead wood down the road as you regorw the tree from the new growth that is starting to show. As a side bar I really did not mean to give you a hard time.

We're fine Sir! I really value your, and the other folks', knowledge and experience and everyone's willingness to share that knowledge. It would appear my misplaced attempts were a rather good example of a little bit of knowledge being dangerous. I'm just glad my tree appears to be giving me another shot at doing the "right" thing. So, I'll be trying my best to take care of the back budding and look to the future!!

 

[M. Frary]

Did I not say that you would get some growth back towards the trunk? These back bud as well as any juniper I have. Quite well. Let it grow and grow and keep us posted.

 

[jk_lewis]

I don't think this tree is beyond hope

Alas . . . I do.

You will be much happier purchasing another juniper. I suggest finding one of the J. chinensis cultivars. They are MUCH more forgiving than J. parsonii.

 

[Vance Wood]

I have made a career out of dealing with material like this. What happens is the tree is worked on without knowing what you are doing, (meaning me) the mistakes are made and the tree is left to anguish for a number of years until knowledge and development catch up, synchronize and become viable. It is at this point the tree become a really good piece of pre-bonsai. It is this point a lot of experienced bonsai people drop the ball. I don't mean to be critical or condescending but I find it interesting that so many are willing to toss a tree, go and find another then say you should go and buy a pre-bonsai when just recently throwing one out.

 

[erb.75]

mistake trees can become nice bonsai...and they are perhaps the most important trees to work on

 

[jk_lewis]

Yes, the forum has a 4mb file size limit, and if the photo is larger, it just spins until it times out. I've lowered the file size on my camera to accommodate...not crazy about the compromise, but it's easier to share pix.

I think it's better to use your graphics program to reduce the size of a pic posted here. They you will have the full-size photo to use elsewhere if needed.

I have made a career out of dealing with material like this.

Well, I'm glad you have the time to spend on "material like this," Vance. (And I wasn't suggesting he toss it in the trash. It'll grow in the yard.

 

[Vance Wood]

I was not suggesting that you were. But no one left him with an alternative but plant it in the yard.

 

[jedge76]

Alas . . . I do.

You will be much happier purchasing another juniper. I suggest finding one of the J. chinensis cultivars. They are MUCH more forgiving than J. parsonii.

The OP has back budding. He's learned a couple of lessons from this tree already and that value far exceeds the minimal funds this tree probably cost in the 1st place. I think it the perfect tree for him to continue to grow with. Stay with it, sbarnhardt.

 

[sbarnhardt]

Good Morning to all!

First, I'd like to thank all who have offered information and/or encouragement to me with this. It is greatly appreciated.

I have a question about something re: what I now have and how it relates to back budding.

Am I better off letting it grow as it will with feeding and watering for the summer. Or, is there something to be gained, or lost, by trimming and/or pinching the ends of the long limbs? Will this encourage more backbudding or would it place too much additional strain on the tree? I've read where a certain amount of leaves/needles/green is needed to produce enough of what a plant needs to live making me wary of trimming the ends, and I've also read where mention was made of doing it to encourage growth back along the limb. Given my current track record of doing the wrong thing, the wrong way, I want to ask the opinion of folks who are way more knowledgeable than I.

 

[Vance Wood]

I would let it grow as long as the new little shoots at the base of the branches continue to develop freely. You might have to resort to cutting the ends of the branches, to continue keeping resources flowing to the new buds.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Let it grow for now, with the exception of rubbing out those buds in the "branch crotches". Once the new buds (I circled in green previously) are strong enough...3-4" long, you can remove everything else. I suspect it will take 8 weeks.

No need to plant it in the yard, or toss it in the trash, or buy something else, or give up.