Overwinter in north central Kansas?

I don't raise trident maples in the Chicago area, because I found them not quite winter hardy here. In Kansas, I think your best bet would be to winter it in your shop.

I switched to Amur maples, because they really are fully hardy here. I don't have to protect my Amur maples at all.
 
I assure you, it does exist. A couple of days approaching 100 degrees with winds approaching 20mph and all your maple leaves have brown crinkly edges. Even under 40% shade cloth.
Yep - thus the plastic trellis contraption. But today is too windy so the bales and blanket are up.
 
It is all about water - at the leaves. I tried to keep a Japanese maple sitting in a shallow pan of water and it looked just as bad as the one right beside it. Maybe both had too much water, I don't know. Maybe just too, too hot. That was the summer we had 50+ days over 100. Even Japanese maples in the ground get to looking a little crispy. Sometime I would like to set up a misting system to see if that would help.

Sorry for the hijack. Back to our regular programming . . ..
I agree. We fight drought more than blizzards or dry sub-zero these years. This year was just an anomaly on the cycles. It keeps you guessing almost daily.
 
I may have to check out the Amur as an alternative. SO - I guess I can return to my request. That little forest pot is very shallow. Most of the bonsai pots I buried were around 3.5”. I hate to bury the pot and then mulch up the trunk because I have killed some yard seedlings that way (lessons learned!). Maybe I need to try burying the pot to ground level and then using a lighter mulch, like wheat straw loosely around the forest? Has ANYBODY had success with one of these nice little forest groupings of Trident had luck at overwintering?
 
Current is clear skies, wind has shifted to out of the north at 31, gusts to 44, temp 53*. Tomorrow it could be 70* But in two nights it will hit 29-30* again.
 
I don't raise trident maples in the Chicago area, because I found them not quite winter hardy here. In Kansas, I think your best bet would be to winter it in your shop.

I switched to Amur maples, because they really are fully hardy here. I don't have to protect my Amur maples at all.
I would like to try the Amur’s. As far as the shop goes, wouldn’t that just bust the dormancy on days when it did hit 60-70*, because there are tow south windows and two west for lighting purposes? I kept Junipers in there last winter on a bench in south sun but it was a precarious watering battle. I am sure they will be happier outside with the pots buried this winter. As far as my two maples go I am leery of having it get too warm inside of the shop and along with the dry heat it will kill them. Sometimes I wish I could find background information on native environments of these trees like I have old college texts of KS species. So far my searches seem to be lacking. I spent money on four beautiful bonsai books but, honestly, this site has been more helpful than any of those books. I would rather have bought a new tree or materials with that money. Lesson learned.
 
Sometimes I wish I could find background information on native environments of these trees like I have old college texts of KS species.
Wikipedia describes the range of trident maples in China and from a “zone” map that I had found online they are from zone 6 - 10. I grow them in zone 11a (lows down to 40F) and they seem to get enough dormancy. Kansas nurseries sell them and some advertise they are hardy into zone 5. Since Leo reports they aren’t hardy in Chicago, I suspect it’s even a roll of the dice to grow them in the ground in zone 5.
 
As far as my two maples go I am leery of having it get too warm inside of the shop and along with the dry heat it will kill them.

Too warm could be issue for early bud pop. I would think low humidity is not a probIem once they are dormant. I can’t help on overwintering in your shop. But for reference, my tridents in containers outdoors are dormant in Jan/Feb with average air temps from 65F to 45F. On warm sunny days the container soil easily heats past that into the 80sF. They appear to accumulate enough ‘chill hours’ from temps below 50F and down to 40F. This is also our wet season, so humidity is higher and pots can stay wet with prolonged rains.

My guess is that your biggest challenge in the shop will be keeping the day temps from getting too hot on those odd 70F winter days in KS. Also they will probably bud out too early before you are past risk of frost in early May. At that point would an elaborate light, humidifier, and fan set up bridge the gap until they can go out in April/May?
 
I would like to try the Amur’s. As far as the shop goes, wouldn’t that just bust the dormancy on days when it did hit 60-70*, because there are tow south windows and two west for lighting purposes? I kept Junipers in there last winter on a bench in south sun but it was a precarious watering battle. I am sure they will be happier outside with the pots buried this winter. As far as my two maples go I am leery of having it get too warm inside of the shop and along with the dry heat it will kill them. Sometimes I wish I could find background information on native environments of these trees like I have old college texts of KS species. So far my searches seem to be lacking. I spent money on four beautiful bonsai books but, honestly, this site has been more helpful than any of those books. I would rather have bought a new tree or materials with that money. Lesson learned.

The reason I suggested to winter the Trident forest in the shop is because there is NO TIME for them to develop maximum cold hardiness. Kansas would be pushing the limit for cold hardiness for trident. You might be just barely inside their tolerance range, you might be just a touch too cold in winter. Regardless, these came from Brussel's in Mississippi, where the weather would be very summer like right now compared to your climate.

IT takes about 2 full months, 8 to 12 weeks of slowly decreasing night time temperatures for a tree to make the metabolic changes needed to have maximum winter hardiness. The metabolic changes include increasing sugar content of the sap, lowering the amount of water stored in cells, changes in the growing ends (meristematic tissues) of roots and buds, and many more changes I can't think of. Key is it takes time to adapt to cold. For example, we own a blueberry farm. Blueberry flower buds form in August. Normally the buds are freeze hardy through -16 F, if they are allowed the time to adapt. So -16 F (-27 C) is no problem if it occurs in January after a "normal" steadily declining night time temperature autumn and winter. When a January thaw hit in 2013, after 5 days with highs above 50 F (10 C) one day got to 80 F (26 C) then a return to normal winter. Only hit zero F, (-17 C) and nearly 100% of the flower buds were killed. No harvest that summer.

My concern is the trident forest has not had time to adapt to Kansas cold. Outdoors you will get too cold too quickly. If you had purchased the forest in June or July, I would have no concern about adapting to cold. Then you only would be facing the issue of whether tridents are good through your area. Also, the shallow ceramic pot is likely to get broken by freezing and thawing. So the pot, and not enough time to adapt are why I recommend wintering in the shop.

In my area, tridents are problematic, they have proven sensitive to my extreme cold winters without extra protection. When I winter them in the well house, there is a period, which begins about a month before it is safe to put them outside where the well house warms with the warming of the ground, as temperature creeps to 40 F, then 42 F, the Japanese maples and trident maples break dormancy about 2 to 4 weeks early. Then I either have to do the "in and out" dance, and risk frost or freeze if I don't get them back inside on a cold night, or I have a months worth of weak, etiolated, growth that has to be removed when I put them out for good in spring. Either way, breaking dormancy too early is either a back ache or a set back because growth has to be removed. In the ground, or on the ground, for me, Japanese maples and tridents survive 2 or 3 out of 5 winters. Sometimes they make it, but by the 5th year one winter has killed them. Same issue with Japanese black pine.

By the way, JBP need heat to really wake up in spring, so storing in the well house for winter is not an issue. THey stay dormant through 45 F, and are still dormant when it is safe to put them out in spring. For whatever it is worth
 
Too warm could be issue for early bud pop. I would think low humidity is not a probIem once they are dormant. I can’t help on overwintering in your shop. But for reference, my tridents in containers outdoors are dormant in Jan/Feb with average air temps from 65F to 45F. On warm sunny days the container soil easily heats past that into the 80sF. They appear to accumulate enough ‘chill hours’ from temps below 50F and down to 40F. This is also our wet season, so humidity is higher and pots can stay wet with prolonged rains.

My guess is that your biggest challenge in the shop will be keeping the day temps from getting too hot on those odd 70F winter days in KS. Also they will probably bud out too early before you are past risk of frost in early May. At that point would an elaborate light, humidifier, and fan set up bridge the gap until they can go out in April/May?
Good ideas. Thanks.
 
The reason I suggested to winter the Trident forest in the shop is because there is NO TIME for them to develop maximum cold hardiness. Kansas would be pushing the limit for cold hardiness for trident. You might be just barely inside their tolerance range, you might be just a touch too cold in winter. Regardless, these came from Brussel's in Mississippi, where the weather would be very summer like right now compared to your climate.

IT takes about 2 full months, 8 to 12 weeks of slowly decreasing night time temperatures for a tree to make the metabolic changes needed to have maximum winter hardiness. The metabolic changes include increasing sugar content of the sap, lowering the amount of water stored in cells, changes in the growing ends (meristematic tissues) of roots and buds, and many more changes I can't think of. Key is it takes time to adapt to cold. For example, we own a blueberry farm. Blueberry flower buds form in August. Normally the buds are freeze hardy through -16 F, if they are allowed the time to adapt. So -16 F (-27 C) is no problem if it occurs in January after a "normal" steadily declining night time temperature autumn and winter. When a January thaw hit in 2013, after 5 days with highs above 50 F (10 C) one day got to 80 F (26 C) then a return to normal winter. Only hit zero F, (-17 C) and nearly 100% of the flower buds were killed. No harvest that summer.

My concern is the trident forest has not had time to adapt to Kansas cold. Outdoors you will get too cold too quickly. If you had purchased the forest in June or July, I would have no concern about adapting to cold. Then you only would be facing the issue of whether tridents are good through your area. Also, the shallow ceramic pot is likely to get broken by freezing and thawing. So the pot, and not enough time to adapt are why I recommend wintering in the shop.

In my area, tridents are problematic, they have proven sensitive to my extreme cold winters without extra protection. When I winter them in the well house, there is a period, which begins about a month before it is safe to put them outside where the well house warms with the warming of the ground, as temperature creeps to 40 F, then 42 F, the Japanese maples and trident maples break dormancy about 2 to 4 weeks early. Then I either have to do the "in and out" dance, and risk frost or freeze if I don't get them back inside on a cold night, or I have a months worth of weak, etiolated, growth that has to be removed when I put them out for good in spring. Either way, breaking dormancy too early is either a back ache or a set back because growth has to be removed. In the ground, or on the ground, for me, Japanese maples and tridents survive 2 or 3 out of 5 winters. Sometimes they make it, but by the 5th year one winter has killed them. Same issue with Japanese black pine.

By the way, JBP need heat to really wake up in spring, so storing in the well house for winter is not an issue. THey stay dormant through 45 F, and are still dormant when it is safe to put them out in spring. For whatever it is worth
Good info. I understand these are late season sale trees. I have considered a quick repot into a deeper pot with as little disturbance as possible. I also think I should just be careful for now and do the in and out dance daily based on temps. I sure am hooked on the forest grouping though.
 
I understand this Spring they will be puttingout other species in forest groupings. I will just save my pennies.
 
So, I really need a “dark” greenhouse that is cold? Ha - makes the uninitiated concept of plant care really complicated! I love it! I still wish I had a greenhouse but these little trees are special.
 
So, I really need a “dark” greenhouse that is cold? Ha - makes the uninitiated concept of plant care really complicated! I love it! I still wish I had a greenhouse but these little trees are special.
Meaning, other than the little fukien tea I got from lowes a year ago I prefer the outdoor challenges. The beauty I see in them is not the same as the 35 yr old jade plant we have in the house. These are trees.
 
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