Over watering or under watering?

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

I think it is good to have some other possibilities available. Watering correctly for every different species is a challenge.
Moisture meters indicate wet, moist or dry. Sticking it in every pot each time feels like an unnatural thing to do especially with the different needs in plant variaties in the bench.
Without being aware of a plants needs it does not add a lot imo.

What I was wondering about the wooden stick as indicator. Does the dampness of the wood directly indicate the moisture in the soil?
Wood takes longer to saturate than the soil and it also takes longer to dry out than the soil it is in. Does that not give biased view?

 

[Brain Treez]

I think it is good to have some other possibilities available. Watering correctly for every different species is a challenge.
Moisture meters indicate wet, moist or dry. Sticking it in every pot each time feels like an unnatural thing to do especially with the different needs in plant variaties in the bench.
Without being aware of a plants needs it does not add a lot imo.

What I was wondering about the wooden stick as indicator. Does the dampness of the wood directly indicate the moisture in the soil?
Wood takes longer to saturate than the soil and it also takes longer to dry out than the soil it is in. Does that not give biased view?

It's likely true the saturation rate of the skewer and the soil are different, but whatever moisture is present on the outside of the skewer, the surface moisture, is going to be a direct indicator of the moisture present in the soil it is touching. You get used to the "feel" of different moisture levels in the texture of the skewer. If it's slick, it's obviously very wet.

I use kind of a "grip and rip" method. Take the skewer out, grip it in one fist and pull it through like I'm squeegeeing the skewer clean. Like a lot of bonsai seems to be, it's as much art as science.

 

[Paradox]

I think it is good to have some other possibilities available. Watering correctly for every different species is a challenge.
Moisture meters indicate wet, moist or dry. Sticking it in every pot each time feels like an unnatural thing to do especially with the different needs in plant variaties in the bench.
Without being aware of a plants needs it does not add a lot imo.

What I was wondering about the wooden stick as indicator. Does the dampness of the wood directly indicate the moisture in the soil?
Wood takes longer to saturate than the soil and it also takes longer to dry out than the soil it is in. Does that not give biased view?

The wood does not have to be saturated to see if its wet.
As I stated in one of my previous posts:
If the chopstick is wet, the soil around it is wet. If it was almost dry, the soil had some moisture but was almost dry.
I have never seen the soil to be bone dry while the stick was still wet

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

The wood does not have to be saturated to see if its wet.
As I stated in one of my previous posts:
If the chopstick is wet, the soil around it is wet. If it was almost dry, the soil had some moisture but was almost dry.
I have never seen the soil to be bone dry while the stick was still wet

I will give it a try The look of the top soil has worked for me, I am interessed in other more accurate ways though.
Although I am still wondering if a saturated wooden stick will show dry at the same time as a granular soil in summer after a few wet days.

 

[Paradox]

I will give it a try The look of the top soil has worked for me, I am interessed in other more accurate ways though.
Although I am still wondering if a saturated wooden stick will show dry at the same time as a granular soil in summer after a few wet days.

The thing with just looking at the top of the soil as it can dry out very quickly, particularly on a recently repotted tree.
An inch or so down below that could be a different story, which is what is nice about the chopstick (or piece of dowel) stuck into the pot

 

[ShadyStump]

I recommend bamboo over wood; much more uniformity in the material whereas different woods from different trees will absorb and release moisture at different rates. Bamboo is much more fibrous and thus wicks moisture much more evenly I've noticed.

I think we're getting turned around on what we're actually supposed to be measuring, now that I think about it.
We're not using that bamboo stick to judge the moisture in the soil, but rather as an analog to the moisture in the roots.
If the bamboo is full of moisture, then the roots should be too. But that little bamboo stick isn't attached to a living organism that is able to distribute water throughout, so if the stick is drying out, you still have a little time before your tree is drying out.
It might be best to start thinking of our soil as just being the medium we use to transfer water and nutrients to the tree. I'm once again reminded of the time @HorseloverFat likened it to hydroponics; we're just using the substrate to moderate our moisture and nutrient uptake.

 

[datboiham]

A question for the experienced growers out there. When it comes to beginners, which do you think is more of a problem.
Over watering or under watering? I know it depends on the substrate, but just in general.

Thanks and Happy Growing

Definitely overwatering, paired with wanting to change the tree too much, too early. I learned the hard way.

 

[Paradox]

As to the original question, I can't really pinpoint either one honestly. I think watering in general is something new people struggle to wrap their head around. There are a lot of variables because of species differences, climate, microclimate, yard set up, etc, etc

 

[PastryBaker]

All this talk about chopsticks is making me hungry...lol
But to the ones who use them, do you use a whole chopstick or break them into pieces?

Out here ins Palm Springs the watering is easy in summer. Because it is everyday of not twice a day. That was when the temps are between 105-112F in the day and in the high 80s at night.
Now that is has "cooled" off ( 85-90F during the day) the watering is very different. Each tree is different, where in the summer they all needed it.
And I just looked at the forecast and next week it may get down to 48F at night. Now I have to think about tropicals coming in. Always something. But that is a good thing.

 

[badatusernames]

Have been using the chopstick method this year myself and while my plants are strong, it has indicated I’ve been watering too much in the past. I have trees that apparently can go days without water even in a hot summer - more moisture stays in the core of denser rootballs than I thought.

 

[Brain Treez]

All this talk about chopsticks is making me hungry...lol
But to the ones who use them, do you use a whole chopstick or break them into pieces?

Out here ins Palm Springs the watering is easy in summer. Because it is everyday of not twice a day. That was when the temps are between 105-112F in the day and in the high 80s at night.
Now that is has "cooled" off ( 85-90F during the day) the watering is very different. Each tree is different, where in the summer they all needed it.
And I just looked at the forecast and next week it may get down to 48F at night. Now I have to think about tropicals coming in. Always something. But that is a good thing.

I use 6" bamboo skewers. You can get like 100 of them for $5. I just use the entire skewer and leave it in there, but you can cut them off so they only stick out far enough you can pull them out. They occasionally break, but at that price, no big deal. It's raining every few days here in Oregon, and I haven't watered my trees once in nearly two weeks. The skewers give me peace of mind that I'm not accidentally letting them dry out by relying on the rain.

 

[ShadyStump]

I do the same as @Brain Treez, with the bamboo skewers. Because they're so much smaller you are much more likely to find the skewers dry before the soil in the thick of the root ball is, and you'll want to be thorough with your watering every time because they'll soak through faster than the soil. Will also confirm they are prone to breaking easier, but are really cheap.
Keep in mind it is a stick of grass being kept in a constantly moist environment, so they do weaken and wear out. The actual chopsticks will last much longer, and are a little more accurate, but also often cost more relative to the number of trees you can use them on at once. Classic quality vs quantity choice.

 

[RaginCajun]

Thermal drive… hot to cold. Wet to dry. The chopstick method is excellent. If the stick is wet, you can be sure the soil around it is wet. If it’s dry the soil is dry. You can even see the level of moisture from the top of the soil to the very bottom just by looking at the moisture on the Stick..
you’ll see 1/4 of the stick dampish and 3/4 of it still saturated with moisture. Give it a shot.

 

[Pixar]

Hi ,

I use the WH51 pair with HP2550 console

HP2550_C 7" TFT Colour Display Console

Features: 7" large TFT (high resolution) colored display console Can be the display console for WH32(Outdoor temp and humidity sensor) + WS68(wireless anemometer) /WS80(ultrasonic anemometer)+ WH40(self-emptying rain gauge sensor) Supports uploads to Weather Underground/Weather Cloud/WOW via...

shop.ecowitt.com

You can adjust the ADV value within the console adjusting the soil moisture reading . Works well for me
You can add up to 8 sensors for the console . Console also does other thing such as temperature and Humidity , wind speed direction etc.....

 

[Wulfskaar]

What do you not like about the chopstick method? I have really liked it. I've got one in every pot, pull it out like I'm checking the oil. I wipe it on my palm and it seems like I can really get a sense of the media's moisture level. It's resulted in me cutting back my watering when it's not hot.

I was using the chopstick method for a while, but they turn color and begin to rot quickly. I think the key is to change them out often.

Edit: The bamboo skewers is probably a better way to go.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Is there any difference in using the chopstick method for a tree in a 1 gallon nursery pot vs a tree in a shallow bonsai pot?

Most of my trees are not yet in shallow pots, so the soil tends to stay wet much longer.

 

[RaginCajun]

Is there any difference in using the chopstick method for a tree in a 1 gallon nursery pot vs a tree in a shallow bonsai pot?

Most of my trees are not yet in shallow pots, so the soil tends to stay wet much longer.

You can use them in nursery pots, flower pots and planters.
It’s like a dipstick for soil. You can see where the soil is dry and where it’s wet.

 

[ShadyStump]

Is there any difference in using the chopstick method for a tree in a 1 gallon nursery pot vs a tree in a shallow bonsai pot?

Most of my trees are not yet in shallow pots, so the soil tends to stay wet much longer.

I'll amend @RaginCajun's last comment by pointing out that the bamboo or wood fibers do act as a wick; the moisture in them will spread along the length.
So in a shallow bonsai pot you'll get a decent view of the average moisture at any depth because, well, there isn't much depth. However, in a deeper container the moisture will average along the length of the stick a bit more, sometimes more than it does throughout the soil. Still very useful, but don't assume the stick is a direct analog to potential moisture differences.

 

[JackHammer]

I water pretty much all of my conifers every day unless it is raining. I just limit the amount of water. I stop watering from early October till the spring frost date and let the winter figure it out.
My pots are a little on the larger side though, with a good amount of organic material. My tropicals get flooded and are currently in a mist shower station. I have a mallsai fuckien tea and that is the absolute hardest to water. Don't water until it is super dry and still it needs to be sparingly. I don't know how retail shops keep them alive long enough to sell.

 

[The Barber]

The actual chopsticks will last much longer, and are a little more accurate, but also often cost more

Unless you work next door to a Thai restaurant and eat there way too often like I do