Newbie--help me with my indoor grow setup please!

[_#1_]

Will you look at my pictures and let me know what you think about the light? Is it too close to my trees? I'm trying to figure out if I am accidentally scorching them but don't really know how to tell leaf burn apart from other issues lol!

For comparison sake, outside daylight is something like 120,000 lumens. Unfortunately your light setup is way under performing. Some flashlights give out higher light output I think.

Check out some hydroponic stores for some led grow lights. Good ones that can accommodate something like 4X4 feet is something in the range of $700 to $1400.

If you're putting them in the tupperware to try to control the environment, you'll need an intake fan and an exhaust fan.

You'll also need a humidifier and de humidifier.

Also need a hydrometer to be able to see what temperature and relative humidity is inside your setup.

You watered twice since you got them 4 days ago? Over watered could be a possibility since the soil looks mostly organic. Humidity in there might not be good for them either, hence the need for intake/exhaust fans.

Indoor growing is not as easy as it appear unfortunately.

 

[penumbra]

You know, I am just trying to help you out here. As has been tated, even the top experts have a hard time keeping these alive inside. I have been engaged in plant care actively for 50 years and actually started 64 years ago with plants. This does not really mean anything and I welcome you to ignore all the advice given and proceed as you wish.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I'm not disagreeing with any of you. I never typed those words or even inclined the idea which is why I'm irritated that I was getting backlash like I was. I'm upset because I was mislead by eastern leaf and am now stuck with over $100 worth of trees. So maybe the most helpful thing for me, is maybe you guys can give me some tips, advice with my setup, to give me a smidgen of a chance to have them live? They aren't a returnable item. You say near impossible but not impossible. Obviously I have nothing else to lose now so I would really really appreciate any pointers or advice on how I can make this work. I've only had them 4 days. Does it look like leaf burn to you? Are my lights too close and bright? Anything that would actually help?

I don't think us telling you how to grow deciduous trees as tropical trees will benefit you much. It's near impossible for a beginner, extremely difficult for an experienced grower.

I hate to say it, but nothing you can do with your setup will give these trees a chance to survive. They need to rest for a part of the year, and no amount of light or humidity will give these trees that requirement.

We're trying to help you and not let you get discouraged with the hobby when the trees eventually (unfortunately) die from being indoors. Try Ficus, they're great indoor trees.

 

[_#1_]

You folks are reading the OP wrong. Poor guy just wanted to know what it takes to give his elms the best chance at survival indoors.

He already spent $100+ on the trees and not want that money to go to waste.

I tried to be helpful to give him a simple breakdown of most important items to have in the attempt to save his trees being indoors.
He'll have to decide if he wants to spend a couple hundred to over a thousand on equipment to try to see his project through.

My only real advice is to put them outside in indirect sun (shade) for about a week then transition them to full sun. Let them do their thing and brainstorm a future project for them. Outdoor project.

 

[Mikecheck123]

Chinese elms can absolutely be grown indoors all year round. People who say it isn't possible have never tried it.

 

[Paradox]

You folks are reading the OP wrong. Poor guy just wanted to know what it takes to give his elms the best chance at survival indoors.

He already spent $100+ on the trees and not want that money to go to waste.

I tried to be helpful to give him a simple breakdown of most important items to have in the attempt to save his trees being indoors.
He'll have to decide if he wants to spend a couple hundred to over a thousand on equipment to try to see his project through.

My only real advice is to put them outside in indirect sun (shade) for about a week then transition them to full sun. Let them do their thing and brainstorm a future project for them. Outdoor project.

He will have to add a humidity controlled cold box or room (or equip the room they will be in for this) that will allow the forest to drop to temperatures below 40 degrees F for 4+ months to get these to survive since they need a cold dormancy. So add another $1000 to $10,000 to that estimate

 

[Paradox]

Chinese elms can absolutely be grown indoors all year round. People who say it isn't possible have never tried it.

I think these are regular elms, not Chinese elms

 

[Mikecheck123]

I think these are regular elms, not Chinese elms

Oh I thought Jacqueline Hillier was another Chinese elm cultivar. I stand corrected and tip my fedora to you.

 

[ShadyStump]

No cause is hopeless.

@Aquaticjade , like folks have said, elms tend to require a dormancy period every year. I'm not familiar or experienced with this species. If you're growing indoors, take some time to think on how you might provide a cooler, darker environment so your trees can rest.

Also as said, elms like bright light, and LEDs don't really burn. Florescents aren't bright enough for elms, but don't burn as much as other lights can. I heard somewhere the number 8 inches from the top of the plant, but I imagine it depends on the light and the plant. If you're not opposed to Amazon shopping, there are some decent deals on bright LED grow lights. For elms, go bright or give up.

They don't need too much humidity, so your tub is superfluous.
Have you heard of the chopstick method of checking soil moisture? It saved a few trees once I finally started doing it.

For everyone else, it might just be impossible. But I for one would like to find out for sure.

 

[Paradox]

Ok I just went to Eastern Leaf's website to see for myself what we are looking at.

According to the site, this cultivar can handle indoor conditions. Also, they include a care sheet with the shipment. @Aquaticjade, did you read what the care sheet recommended?

I can't say that your trees look like they are getting scorched. They don't look like that to me. They honestly look like they are just starting to change color to fall color but it's hard to say for sure.

 

[ShadyStump]

Ok I just went to Eastern Leaf's website to see for myself what we are looking at.

According to the site, this cultivar can handle indoor conditions. Also, they include a care sheet with the shipment. @Aquaticjade, did you read what the care sheet recommended?

I can't say that your trees look like they are getting scorched. They don't look like that to me. We're they deep green when you got them? They honestly look like they are just starting to change color to fall color

If his lighting is under powered, that's very possible. Triggering dormancy is a mix of temperatures and light intensity. I'm not convinced it's been quite long enough since he's had them to make that call, though. Still not nixing the idea.

 

[Paradox]

If his lighting is under powered, that's very possible. Triggering dormancy is a mix of temperatures and light intensity. I'm not convinced it's been quite long enough since he's had them to make that call, though. Still not nixing the idea.

OP said they came in with some of the leaves yellow. I don't think it's the setup that did it. Leaf color change is triggered by temperature mainly iirc. The trees could have been exposed to lower temperatures at night during shipping.

It could also be a root issue or too much humidity in the enclosure

 

[MHBonsai]

I was asking innocent questions out of genuine curiosity. I really don't appreciate the condescending tone I always see on forums and with a good bit of these replies here. It makes people who come seeking advice feel like they did something wrong by asking people with more experience for help. I literally said "i don't mean to discredit anyone as I have no personal knowledge" and then I get comments like this....

It's hard to read tone on the internet. Believe me, everyone here want's you successful in growing bonsai. It's why we are here and it's what we love doing.

I have an big indoor setup. I use a grow tent that maintains humidity/airflow/temp with lights and fans and the whole deal. I use it for tropicals and for orchids. Works great.

If you would like to keep these indoors, the factors you really need to control most is moisture and humidity. It's really tough to keep any plant growing inside because there isn't an easy way to give plants enough light to drive a lot of growth and water movement, so overwatering happens easily and your roots will rot. Your soil doesn't look particularly well draining which will be something to manage.

If I was in your shoes, I would pull them out of their pots and gently gently repot them, removing no roots into some really well draining soil. Probably just straight pumice. That way I'd know for certain the soil would freely drain and not destroy the root mass. Then pump as much light into them as possible. You won't burn anything with your current light setup. I would get it out of the plastic tote as well, to keep air moving around. A simple tray to collect water would work better.

If it these were mine, I'd still put them outside - even with a full indoor setup.

In the mean time, grab a cheap ficus and go to town!

 

[TinyArt]

I'm a newb, won't pretend otherwise -- but Brooklyn Botanic Garden's Growing Bonsai Indoors (2013) does say "Chinese elm...cultivars generally belong in one of two groups. Cultivars with rough bark tend to be hardier and should be grown outdoors. Cultivars with smooth bark can be grown outdoors year-round but can also handle growing indoors year-round. Chinese elm can be evergreen if kept indoors with warm temperatures, but it is best for the longevity of the tree to give it some sort of rest period with lower temperatures during winter indoors."

Growing Bonsai Indoors - Brooklyn Botanic - Out of Print

Growing Bonsai Indoors is a how to & care book for beginning to intermediate bonsai enthusiasts and is the only indoor bonsai book in print (in English at least). Written by and for North American bonsai students in a simple and straightforward style. Full of general how to bonsai information...

stonelantern.com

 

[Paradox]

I'm a newb, won't pretend otherwise -- but Brooklyn Botanic Garden's Growing Bonsai Indoors (2013) does say "Chinese elm...cultivars generally belong in one of two groups. Cultivars with rough bark tend to be hardier and should be grown outdoors. Cultivars with smooth bark can be grown outdoors year-round but can also handle growing indoors year-round. Chinese elm can be evergreen if kept indoors with warm temperatures, but it is best for the longevity of the tree to give it some sort of rest period with lower temperatures during winter indoors."

Growing Bonsai Indoors - Brooklyn Botanic - Out of Print

Growing Bonsai Indoors is a how to & care book for beginning to intermediate bonsai enthusiasts and is the only indoor bonsai book in print (in English at least). Written by and for North American bonsai students in a simple and straightforward style. Full of general how to bonsai information...

stonelantern.com

As was pointed out earlier, these are not Chinese elms. However according to where the OP purchased them, this species/cultivar of elm (Jacqueline Hiller) can be grown indoors

 

[TinyArt]

this cultivar of elm (Jacqueline Hiller) can be grown indoors

Beg pardon...
At a quick Google, sounds sweet! Hmm...

 

[TinyArt]

Guess I have to find a smooth-barked CE and kill it (or not). Obviously a bit obsessed!

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Guess I have to find a smooth-barked CE and kill it (or not). Obviously a bit obsessed!

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I should try again. For science, of course.

 

[ShadyStump]

So, some quick between-tasks research.

Paghat's Garden: Ulmus x hollandica 'Jacqueline Hillier'

Random stuff about Paghat the Ratgirl's gardens.

www.paghat.com

And other pages also say it can adapt to indoor living without a dormancy period. I may be much healthier with a dormancy rest, but can survive for years without it.

So, OP has a decent shot here.

 

[Scrogdor]

I'm not disagreeing with any of you. I never typed those words or even inclined the idea which is why I'm irritated that I was getting backlash like I was. I'm upset because I was mislead by eastern leaf and am now stuck with over $100 worth of trees. So maybe the most helpful thing for me, is maybe you guys can give me some tips, advice with my setup, to give me a smidgen of a chance to have them live? They aren't a returnable item. You say near impossible but not impossible. Obviously I have nothing else to lose now so I would really really appreciate any pointers or advice on how I can make this work. I've only had them 4 days. Does it look like leaf burn to you? Are my lights too close and bright? Anything that would actually help?

I'll try to be helpful here since you're in a tough spot. They should live for a while indoors. From what I know about Chinese Elms, and things I've heard on youtube, if you keep them indoors, they need proper light, so you have the grow lights, but they also have to be kept cool during the winter months, so likely they aren't in a heated room or container. As to how cool, I'm not sure though.

I think, despite what people are saying here, and you really have no choice, is to just go ahead with your set up and try to make it work. Research how to best take care of them indoors, and you can probably get them to last a while. If they die, then switch to a batch of tropical trees like some people have recommended on here. Good luck friend