New Spruce Project

[Paradox]

My preference with all my trees is to repot first and see if the tree tolerates that. My reasoning is that it gets to tree into a wider, shallower container (training pot) that promotes wider spreading root growth rather than deep roots. Then the following year, I start working toward design.

 

[cpt]

First styling

 

[cpt]

I will end up tying off the top to give a slight bend throughout. im pleased with this progression, and will be interested to see this tree develop

 

[cpt]

I managed to get a little more slant into the form. so far so good, Im seeing new growth and the weather has been pretty solid

 

[Vance Wood]

I managed to get a little more slant into the form. so far so good, Im seeing new growth and the weather has been pretty solid

The biggest hurdle you have to navigate at this point is the caliper of the trunk. The spread of your branches do not conform themselves favorably to the width of your trunk to create the image of a forest giant as you have portrayed in your drawings. Regardless of how you decide to address this issue I would suggest a periodic heavy pruning of the branches to keep the new growth forming in towards the trunk. If you do not do this and you allow the new growth to continue forming at the ends of the branch (which is normal) the tree will continue to widen its growth laterally while abandoning close in growth. This will leave you pretty much with a Christmas tree not a forest Giant. JMHO

Another suggestion/observation: Look at a lot of photos of mature to ancient Spruce trees other than Colorado Blues, which tend to not grow the image you are looking for. There is a tendency in the bonsai community to treat Spruce stylistically like Pine trees in the formation of foliage pads. Spruce produce more like flattened out fans without the raised up fingers you see in Pine "Clouds".

 

[cpt]

The biggest hurdle you have to navigate at this point is the caliper of the trunk. The spread of your branches do not conform themselves favorably to the width of your trunk to create the image of a forest giant as you have portrayed in your drawings. Regardless of how you decide to address this issue I would suggest a periodic heavy pruning of the branches to keep the new growth forming in towards the trunk. If you do not do this and you allow the new growth to continue forming at the ends of the branch (which is normal) the tree will continue to widen its growth laterally while abandoning close in growth. This will leave you pretty much with a Christmas tree not a forest Giant. JMHO

Another suggestion/observation: Look at a lot of photos of mature to ancient Spruce trees other than Colorado Blues, which tend to not grow the image you are looking for. There is a tendency in the bonsai community to treat Spruce stylistically like Pine trees in the formation of foliage pads. Spruce produce more like flattened out fans without the raised up fingers you see in Pine "Clouds".

thanks for you suggestion. I will greatly take it into consideration when moving forward on this tree. I really would have liked to have had a better and larger variety of stock to choose from but hopefully I can influence some magic to happen.

 

[cpt]

this maybe a possible direction I take toward developing this tree

 

[fourteener]

In the long run the lowest branches need to be reduced a third. The middle branches by half and the top branches a quarter of what they are now.

If you get good growth this year, pluck all the new shoots in half while they are still tender and fertilize. Spruce will back bud like crazy. After you see where the new buds form, I trim it like Vance said...in a v-formation, back up the branch.

In three to four years you can push the growth back towards the trunk. The othe key is letting the light in. If the branch underneath doesn't get much light, forget about buds.

Also I've had good luck with morning sun til 1:00pm or so and afternoon shade with my spruce. Finally, not sure how sound this is, but I've heard keeping 10-15 buds on a branch keeps things going in the right direction(esp on lower branches ). I seem to have good luck when others haven't. Those are some of the things I do.

 

[october]

A good start, just a couple of things that might need to be considered. First, you current front has a reverse taper base. There is a thin base then a bulge. This will never correct itself and will always be an eye sore. Can you turn the tree slightly to get a better base or one that is more in line with your initial virt? Also, you can bend the branches in accordance with the new angle.

Second, the angle. Many times, when you have a completely straight trunk, tilting the tree towards the side makes it look awkward. Many years ago, I repotted a straight trunk juniper at the nursery. It happened that Master Tsukada was visiting the nursery the day. He saw that I had tilted the tree for a new proposed planting angle. He walked over and pushed the tree back up into the straight position and commented "nice".

Lastly, the branches could be shortened and pulled down a bit more to create a better proportioned silhouette. Giving them a swooping downward curve will make the image more pleasing. Keep in mind that more curves in a branch will make it appear shorter. I would also consider removing one of the bottom branches. They are both on the same level on both sides. Probably the right one. This way, you will have nice ladder branching all the way up the tree. I think that these simple changes will make for a very nice future bonsai.

Maybe something something like this virt.

 

[cpt]

thank you all

i'll see what I can do. im still partial to a slant style for this tree, but I see now that I was attacking it poorly and with the wrong methodology. this afternoon I may attempt to adjust the overall effect of this tree.

I thank you all again for the advise

 

[Vance Wood]

thank you all

i'll see what I can do. im still partial to a slant style for this tree, but I see now that I was attacking it poorly and with the wrong methodology. this afternoon I may attempt to adjust the overall effect of this tree.

I thank you all again for the advise

The problem I have, is the sense that your decision for a slanting style is based more on an arbitrary decision to do this. I would feel better if this was more of an instinctual gut feeling by you that the tree is a slanting style trying to get out. I don't know if you, or anyone else for that matter, has a clue what I am talking about----maybe even me, but; bonsai is not like making a cake where you follow a recipe from out of a book. I am not saying what you are doing, or wanting to do is bad, but in the end, I don't think you are going to be happy with it.

Usually a straight up and down tree makes a lousy bonsai candidate. Unless you go with the semi of fully formal uprights styles the other styles usually prove to be illusive until the tree is beaten up and neglected for years to gain some character that piques you imagination.

 

[cpt]

The problem I have, is the sense that your decision for a slanting style is based more on an arbitrary decision to do this. I would feel better if this was more of an instinctual gut feeling by you that the tree is a slanting style trying to get out. I don't know if you, or anyone else for that matter, has a clue what I am talking about----maybe even me, but; bonsai is not like making a cake where you follow a recipe from out of a book. I am not saying what you are doing, or wanting to do is bad, but in the end, I don't think you are going to be happy with it.

Usually a straight up and down tree makes a lousy bonsai candidate. Unless you go with the semi of fully formal uprights styles the other styles usually prove to be illusive until the tree is beaten up and neglected for years to gain some character that piques you imagination.

thanks I hear what your saying and understand its something that shouldn't be forced. so I will have to go with a formal upright and see how it develops from there

 

[Paradox]

Be careful with wiring. They dont seem to like wiring.

Ive got a CBS that I wired one of the branches down and that branch promptly died. All the unwired branches were fine. Pulling branches down with guy wires might work better but I havent tried it yet.
Also I think someone (October?) mentioned in another thread that it is best to wire CBS in the fall(?)

 

[october]

Very nice! What a difference. These trees do tend to be finiky. Although major styling, including wiring and pruning, is usually done in Fall. I believe it is still early enough to work on the tree. If something does happen where the tree does not survive. I don't think it would be from when it was done, but just that the tree could not handle it.

I must commend you on creating a very pleasing image out of the material. Also, for being open to suggestions about creating a better image. I believe it has culminated in a more natural, well proportioned and elegant looking tree.

Rob