New & Need Red Cedar Ideas

[js0813]

Hello everyone. New here, and just from skimming the forum for a couple days I’ve doubled my knowledge of bonsai. So the bug has bitten me...and I’m trying to selectively choose some of the Eastern Red Cedar (Juniperus Virginiana) that is popping up near our 20’ tree by the house.

Does this look like a good specimen for a Han-kengai style semi-cascade? Would you suggest establishing and trimming to get the trunk thicker before wiring and guiding down if so?


I thought about a Chokkan or even a Forrest of 3 or 4 since I probably have enough decent ones, but that downward sloping growth is just so beautiful!
Any thoughts and/or tips are super welcome-like I said, new here and super new to bonsai overall.

Cheers!

-Jon

 

[GGB]

A lot of folks here don't have great things to say about j. virginiana but I have personally always thought they would make a real nice forest planting. They have negative attributes when compared to some others in the genus, like growth from the crotches. You have access to a bunch for free and it's important to have different sizes in a forest planting so I have to vote yes for that route. They tend to be arrow straight (which is good for forests) and keep the juvenile needle growth for a long time but, some people like needle junipers. they are pretty bullet proof so it may be a good way to get your feet wet.
Plus without having to grow out trunks for 5 to 7 years you can start learning the finer side of bonsai forests. The placement and pruning.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My first tip would be to get it in a pot and get it through summer, fall and winter.
Then you can start contemplating styles, but right now it wouldn't make much sense to aim for something; it might be dead in a month and your envisioned image with it.
First things first ;-)

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If you were to spend money, one of the shimpaku, Juniperus chinensis, varieties are FAR BETTER for bonsai than eastern red cedar. Old urban landscape trees are great sources for very "bonsai-able" juniper varieties. Juniperus virginiana is difficult to work with, the difficulties show more on older trees. At first you will think they are great.

But go ahead and try.

Forest is great. Probably the best use of ERC. Upright styles are good. Forget any cascade style, they will fight you every step of the way.

 

[penumbra]

Forget any cascade style, they will fight you every step of the way.

This ^^^
Really strong apical dominance.

 

[js0813]

Thanks everybody, I’m really glad I asked here first haha. I’m thinking I’ll grab a few decent ones and just recycle my old long planter and see if I can even get them growing up and maybe get them going in a forest next year.

Hard to pass on “free trees”, but I’ll probably give it a go and Be prepared for frustration from the sounds of it.

@penumbra is branch training pretty much pointless in something with a strong apical dominance, or mainly just the stalk/trunk? I have literally learned more today through this site than I could have imagined. This place is great!!

thanks all!

 

[js0813]

My first tip would be to get it in a pot and get it through summer, fall and winter.
Then you can start contemplating styles, but right now it wouldn't make much sense to aim for something; it might be dead in a month and your envisioned image with it.
First things first ;-)

Didn’t really think about that...probably a good idea haha

 

[penumbra]

Apical dominance is throughout all the new growth on this tree, branch or trunk.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Best red cedar idea I can offer is to stay away from them.

 

[sorce]

Best red cedar idea I can offer is to stay away from them.

You just don't want any tricks let out the bag! So you can win that battle!

Welcome to Crazy!

I hate em and love em.

Sorce

 

[Zach Smith]

As a beginner one of your top priorities must be to not get discouraged. I'd suggest doing two things: 1) get yourself as many trees as you can comfortably house and care for; and 2) avoid difficult species such as ERC.

With that said, the part of a tree you showed us at best a seedling, and you are years if not a decade away from being able to decide on a style. ERC grow super slowly, so if that one is out of the ground tack on about three times as much time to get it to size before you can effectively work on it.

Try some easy deciduous species such as American hornbeam and American elm. Get yourself a Cedar elm if you're ready to spend a little money. You want bullet-proof species that will allow you to do your beginner experiments, fail and have the tree come back.

FWIW. Good luck!

 

[js0813]

As a beginner one of your top priorities must be to not get discouraged. I'd suggest doing two things: 1) get yourself as many trees as you can comfortably house and care for; and 2) avoid difficult species such as ERC.

With that said, the part of a tree you showed us at best a seedling, and you are years if not a decade away from being able to decide on a style. ERC grow super slowly, so if that one is out of the ground tack on about three times as much time to get it to size before you can effectively work on it.

Try some easy deciduous species such as American hornbeam and American elm. Get yourself a Cedar elm if you're ready to spend a little money. You want bullet-proof species that will allow you to do your beginner experiments, fail and have the tree come back.

FWIW. Good luck!

Much thanks, that’s probably what I’ll look at doing. I can probably have 3-4 around and be able to care for them properly, so that’s probably my best bet. I may leave these in the pot to just grow a while since I have them. A friend of mine has an American Elm on his property, so I’ll have to go scour his fence line for anything I can grab.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Pretty much all elms make decent bonsai, in North America, the half dozen native species are excellent, as are the several introduced invasive species of elm. So basically, all elms make good to great bonsai. The only elm that has some negatives is the Siberian elm, Ulmus pumila, because it needs full sun, sunrise to sunset full sun, or it tends to drop branches, especially on the shaded side of the tree. American elm is great, it tolerates some shade, though does best with full sun. The Chinese elm, Ulmus chinensis has been used for bonsai since the beginning of bonsai, and was popular for Penjing for many hundreds of years before the Japanese started doing bonsai. So any elm you find in the landscape can work.

Do yourself a favor, Seek 2 to 4 inch diameter elm trunks. They may be quite tall. Dig them up and cut the trunk down to 4 to 10 inches and start your bonsai from those collected stumps. By collecting trunks with some caliper to them, you don't have to spend time growing the tree out. You can go right to developing branches and structure. You save the time needed to build trunk caliper.

 

[js0813]

Pretty much all elms make decent bonsai, in North America, the half dozen native species are excellent, as are the several introduced invasive species of elm. So basically, all elms make good to great bonsai. The only elm that has some negatives is the Siberian elm, Ulmus pumila, because it needs full sun, sunrise to sunset full sun, or it tends to drop branches, especially on the shaded side of the tree. American elm is great, it tolerates some shade, though does best with full sun. The Chinese elm, Ulmus chinensis has been used for bonsai since the beginning of bonsai, and was popular for Penjing for many hundreds of years before the Japanese started doing bonsai. So any elm you find in the landscape can work.

Do yourself a favor, Seek 2 to 4 inch diameter elm trunks. They may be quite tall. Dig them up and cut the trunk down to 4 to 10 inches and start your bonsai from those collected stumps. By collecting trunks with some caliper to them, you don't have to spend time growing the tree out. You can go right to developing branches and structure. You save the time needed to build trunk caliper.

Much thanks for that info...there used to be a ton of Chinese Elm growing down the road, so I may have to wander down there and see what there is. Never thought about planting or growing an elm before.

-Jon