New here. Ideas for this bonsai?

[Myrki]

Hello everyone. First post here. I got this juniper (not sure if Chinese, Japanese, etc), and I wired it as seen, kind of just going for something unique, not totally certain on eventual style. Anyway, I have done some light pruning/trimming on foliage which has 5+ tips growing out. Outside of that I don’t know for sure how I should be pruning. For instance, should I let it grow out a bunch first, or continue to prune it as branches grow long?
Also, will the foliage groups, if let to grow, become longer branches such as the 4 out the side that are already prominent? I want more to grow out from the existing branches so I can cloud prune.

Ok that’s long enough, I’m open to your ideas and suggestions! Thanks!

 

[rockm]

Hello everyone. First post here. I got this juniper (not sure if Chinese, Japanese, etc), and I wired it as seen, kind of just going for something unique, not totally certain on eventual style. Anyway, I have done some light pruning/trimming on foliage which has 5+ tips growing out. Outside of that I don’t know for sure how I should be pruning. For instance, should I let it grow out a bunch first, or continue to prune it as branches grow long?
Also, will the foliage groups, if let to grow, become longer branches such as the 4 out the side that are already prominent? I want more to grow out from the existing branches so I can cloud prune.

Ok that’s long enough, I’m open to your ideas and suggestions! Thanks!

Can't really tell you what to prune without some idea of where you want to go.

Also your location is pretty important for timing on pruning and root care. Please add that info to your avatar at the left.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I think it is a Juniperus Procumbens.

 

[Paradox]

I think it is a Juniperus Procumbens.

Yes it is Juniperus procumbens nana

 

[Myrki]

Ok cool now I know what it is exactly thanks! Ok so when I look this up it appears to be a shrub that matures at 1 foot. Will this be basically just a small bonsai then and if I want eventual growth up to 2+ feet I’ll need to go with another variety?
As for what I’m going for u like the style where it reaches out then back and up eventually. I like any that has unique twists, not a fan of full cascade.
How about the branch growth? Will the foliage shoots become separate additional branches?
Thanks!

FYI, I’m located in south east WI. I was looking where to add it in avatar but I’ll have to explore more

 

[Myrki]

Oh also I want the ends to thicken so I can creat some pads rather than just straight narrow branches

 

[Japonicus]

Oh also I want the ends to thicken so I can creat some pads rather than just straight narrow branches

Let's start with the roots for concerns, however this is a good time to start wiring.
For now bookmark this link

Bonsai Wiring Essentials

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The top is yellowing, so I'd suspect a root issue.
Are you keeping this outside in full Sun?

The number one killer of bonsai with new folks to the hobby is watering and environment.
Get those 2 things down pat and you're off to the races.
Where are you keeping this juniper?

 

[dansai]

Is that tray under it attached to the pot? Or a seperate tray? You don't want your juniper to be sitting in water.

 

[Myrki]

It is a separate tray. I keep outdoors and water when it is visibly dry. When it was 80+ outside that would be daily. Now maybe every other day, with the exception of last week it rained several times the week so I didn’t have to water, and now temps are down to 70s. It gets pretty much full sun all day, outside. Thanks!

 

[Shibui]

Ok cool now I know what it is exactly thanks! Ok so when I look this up it appears to be a shrub that matures at 1 foot. Will this be basically just a small bonsai then and if I want eventual growth up to 2+ feet I’ll need to go with another variety?

Don't be fooled by the 1 foot high measure. These don't naturally grow tall because they are prostrate meaning they can't stand up by themselves BUT the branches and trunk grow strong along the ground. It is not unusual for these to cover several square yards in a garden.
If you wire the trunk upwards it will easily get to 2 feet tall. You can see it already has a trunk wire to hold the first section of the trunk up. Once the wood hardens it can be self supporting. Yoiu definitely need to remove the wires when the wood has hardened. The trunk will continue to thicken as it grows but the wire doesn't so after a year or so the wire starts to cut into the bark and strangle the tree.
Try searching J. procumbens bonsai and check what others have done.

J. procumbens usual growth is for the ends of branches and trunk to grow and keep growing. While the ends are growing the side shoots don't grow so much. To get side shoots to grow more for 'cloud' pruning you will need to trim the ends of the branches regularly. Pruning the ends also stops those branches from growing several yards long.

I think someone already mentioned that junipers don't live long indoors. It needs to be outside getting good sun, wind and occasional rain. Wisconsin gets cold in winter. Hope someone who knows your area can give info on winter protection for Junipers.

 

[Thomas J.]

Just give it time , actually a few years and you could get something like this before and after procumbens.

 

[Myrki]

Just give it time , actually a few years and you could get something like this before and after procumbens.

Oh that is nice! Thanks for the reference

 

[Myrki]

Don't be fooled by the 1 foot high measure. These don't naturally grow tall because they are prostrate meaning they can't stand up by themselves BUT the branches and trunk grow strong along the ground. It is not unusual for these to cover several square yards in a garden.
If you wire the trunk upwards it will easily get to 2 feet tall. You can see it already has a trunk wire to hold the first section of the trunk up. Once the wood hardens it can be self supporting. Yoiu definitely need to remove the wires when the wood has hardened. The trunk will continue to thicken as it grows but the wire doesn't so after a year or so the wire starts to cut into the bark and strangle the tree.
Try searching J. procumbens bonsai and check what others have done.

J. procumbens usual growth is for the ends of branches and trunk to grow and keep growing. While the ends are growing the side shoots don't grow so much. To get side shoots to grow more for 'cloud' pruning you will need to trim the ends of the branches regularly. Pruning the ends also stops those branches from growing several yards long.

I think someone already mentioned that junipers don't live long indoors. It needs to be outside getting good sun, wind and occasional rain. Wisconsin gets cold in winter. Hope someone who knows your area can give info on winter protection for Junipers.

Thanks so much for the in-depth reply! Ok perfect so I’ll trim the ends. You are meaning the very ends of the long branches correct, not the ends of the little foliage pads? I have noticed the ends already grown in the month I’ve had it. Oh and I was the one that wired it as it is.
As for winters I read online that this type is the only one that can survive indoors when the winter gets very cold, but people have said for the most part it can be fine outside and once it really drops low then put it in a well lit, non heated room indoors, or even the garage window. I know it’s not ideal but that’s just what I’ve read.
Thanks a lot! Oh and the height explanation you gave is very good to hear, thanks for that!

 

[Shibui]

Yes, trim the ends of the longer branches and the side shoots will grow more. You are getting close to winter now so not much will happen before it shuts down for a winter rest. Bonsai is about years not a few weeks.
Indoors only where temps are low - unheated garage or shed. Not in the house where it will think t is spring and try to grow already. Again, wait for someone closer to you to give real advice on winter care.

 

[Myrki]

Yes, trim the ends of the longer branches and the side shoots will grow more. You are getting close to winter now so not much will happen before it shuts down for a winter rest. Bonsai is about years not a few weeks.
Indoors only where temps are low - unheated garage or shed. Not in the house where it will think t is spring and try to grow already. Again, wait for someone closer to you to give real advice on winter care.

Thanks so much!

 

[Japonicus]

Looking at your third picture, the top doesn’t look as yellow as 1st 2 pics
so maybe the flash over exposed the top leader.

For your Winter protection , they are rated for zone 4, but that’s grown in ground with free
root roaming. It would be advisable to heel it into the ground just up to the rim of the pot.
A cheap non vitrified pot May break from freeze thaw cycles, or just expansion of water.
After packing the dirt back into the voids like planting the pot, mulch it leaving some space
around the trunk. @HorseloverFat is from WI and will verify that snow is a fantastic insulator
against the coldest and windy weathers. So never will you need to uncover any part of the
juniper as it does not need direct sunlight during dormancy. Indoors is a bad idea.

You’re missing the best window of opportunity to wire it with heavier wire on the trunk
and put more movement into the trunk and branches as well. The branches can wait a little longer
but the trunk will never be as flexible as it is now. This should be done when the soil is nearly dry.
However, you won’t know the breaking point until you break a few, so I understand being subtle
with it. It can take more, but with bigger wire on the trunk. This would require you to unwire 1st.
Play the videos I linked previously on wiring essentials.

 

[Myrki]

Looking at your third picture, the top doesn’t look as yellow as 1st 2 pics
so maybe the flash over exposed the top leader.

For your Winter protection , they are rated for zone 4, but that’s grown in ground with free
root roaming. It would be advisable to heel it into the ground just up to the rim of the pot.
A cheap non vitrified pot May break from freeze thaw cycles, or just expansion of water.
After packing the dirt back into the voids like planting the pot, mulch it leaving some space
around the trunk. @HorseloverFat is from WI and will verify that snow is a fantastic insulator
against the coldest and windy weathers. So never will you need to uncover any part of the
juniper as it does not need direct sunlight during dormancy. Indoors is a bad idea.

You’re missing the best window of opportunity to wire it with heavier wire on the trunk
and put more movement into the trunk and branches as well. The branches can wait a little longer
but the trunk will never be as flexible as it is now. This should be done when the soil is nearly dry.
However, you won’t know the breaking point until you break a few, so I understand being subtle
with it. It can take more, but with bigger wire on the trunk. This would require you to unwire 1st.
Play the videos I linked previously on wiring essentials.

Thanks! Oh man I like that u said to put more movement in the trunk, but I didn’t know what movement I really wanted. I tried to get the lower half of the trunk to turn some but I couldn’t get it. Perhaps I was too gentle.
Yea I just don’t know what type of extra movement I should be trying for. But I’ll check out that link u sent

 

[Myrki]

Another question regarding cutting the ends. Will the ends still continue to grow into the future if I cut, or will it sto there and just start “widening/fanning” further back? Just curious if I’m setting the future length by doing that or if it’ll still grow out as well as increasing the likelihood of sideshoots

 

[Japonicus]

Will the ends still continue to grow into the future if I cut

Absolutely.

Learning how to Shape Pads on my Nana Procumbens

Since I have a number of Nana Junipers, I need to learn how to prune them to best maintain their shape and vitality. I recently 'pinched' one of my larger Nanas, but I'm never really happy with the results of this method, since it leaves brown tips and if aggressive pinching is needed to...

www.bonsainut.com

Thing is they will also grow upwards shoots and downwards shoots which need removing to
keep the silhouette of the pad and more importantly at this point in time, develop the pads.

As for bending, as Shibui said, you'll need to decide where you're wanting to go, what style you like for it.
You don't like cascade, and windswept is difficult to pull off accurately some say.
Oftentime I just go with what the tree has to offer and build on that, bending in a way that puts a branch
to the outside of a curve, eliminating branches on the inside of curves where possible as well as bar branches
that emanate from the same plane. I don't use much aluminum wire, but from the looks of your juniper
size #8 copper equivalent in aluminum size should work. If using annealed copper wire, #10 should suffice.
Wrap at 60º rather than tight 45º for better hold and ease of application. When wiring branches, do not wire
alternate branches with one wire like a teeter totter, because that's exactly the effect that occurs with less holding
power.

Yes they are ground cover and spread more than 2' at maturity. For this reason, they will over time
"fall" backwards by genetics. Meaning they grow away from you when the apex should be directed towards the viewer
rather than away from. For this reason, you'll have to correct the bend in the trunk over time.
I have more procumbens than any other species or variety, and have been keeping them ~25 yrs now.

 

[Japonicus]

One thing about cutting back that hasn't been discussed yet.
A junipers strength is in its foliage. You don't have a lot of foliage and removing the growing tips
removes the ability of the tree to photosynthesize very well. The tips are where the most of the
auxin is produced. Think of the foliage on your juniper as solar panels, to keep the heart charged.
Moving into Winter and the amount of foliage you have, means you should not be removing it.
Especially, especially if this is your 1st juniper and or your 1st wiring job.
Beginning next year, if the soil is draining fast, it will not need repotting generally.
If the soil is not percolating well (water ponds before absorption), you'll need to keep all the foliage
you now have, to help with recovery, post repotting.
Moving forwards in a 3 year plan, and this is a rough guesstimate, as we don't know your care habits,
I would plan to shorten your branches in stages, like 30 or 40% 1st cut and so on.
As you cut back, back budding will occur, and you can build lateral growth as the branch thickens
and gets stronger. As you thin places you have top only growth on the interior of a branch, lower bud(s)
will form lower on the shoot if the juniper is strong, or the shoot will divert more lateral energy.
Again, at least a 3 year plan.

If you were to remove your wire this year. Do not attempt to rewire the branches this year. Let them recover.
Be delicate and cut the wire getting all of it. The black aluminum wire you used is way undersized for the
safety of bending and holding the branch. Undersized wire causes us to overwork the branch to achieve
the desired effect. The lighter color of wire above there on the trunk may be at the upper end of the right size
for the branches. Get where I'm going with this? Bigger wire is harder to work with,
but easier on the branch when you bend it. So a balance of what size you can affectively work with.
That black wire is good for tertiary branching, or smaller secondary, like the last 25% of your branch size/flex.
I think it would be great to go ahead and rewire the trunk only for now, but weigh your decision to do so
based on others input as well. Our 1st wiring jobs tend be harsh on the branches ask anybody how we know lol.