New Azaleas Working Roadmap

[DavideArisi]

Hi guys
I’ve recently bought 2 new Azaleas from a bonsai nursery.
I've been into bonsai for 2 years, so relatively new, particularly to azaleas.
I think these could be beautiful plants, maybe not masterpieces, after a bit of work, but I need some advice from the more experienced.





As you can see the plant already has a nice nebari, I'm happy with its size.

First of all I removed some crossing branches as soon as I brought it home, now new green leaves are starting to show.
My goal would be to make the plant more compact, especially in the lower part where, as you can see, there are some long branches without leaves or that one with tag.
The upper part of the plant already appears more compact.
I know that Azaleas can back bud easely, but you know, i’m thinking twice before cutting back long branches with only final leaves, being scared of losing important branches.





The second azalea is different, in a less advanced stage, the nebari is good, as is the trunk but I'm still not satisfied with its size.
Also no primary branches, just lots of long shots, and no new growth to be seen at the moment, but I think the plant is in good health so it's just a matter of time.
My goal here would be to select the primary branches and remove all others,let them grow until they reach the right thickness, but trying to avoid what was already seen in the first azalea, long thick branches without leaves.

Having made some mistakes in other non-azaleas plants I own, that have caused branch death, I don't want to make the same mistake again.
therefore feel free any type of advice, be it making the plant more compact, selecting the right branches, or anything you wants.

Thanks
Davide

 

[rockm]

First things first--these look to have some significant root issues and bad soil. Can't really tell what the soil looks like because of the weeds. Weeds are never a good sign in a bonsai pot. It suggests neglect.

If the soil is soggy and clogged, it rots roots on azaleas, which have the majority of their roots in the top third of the soil. Pull the weeds, see what the surface roots look like and to see if the soil drains well--it shouldn't pool on the surface for more than a second or two.

Don't cut anything off. Don't select anything. Don't think about design. Health of the plants comes before any of that.

 

[DavideArisi]

You think i need to repot quickly?

 

[bluesky]

Maybe but not necessarily. Like @rockm said, see how quickly it drains through when you water it. If the water pools on top for a time then it likely needs a soil change. Also gently ease it out of the pot to see if the soil is too dense and compacted underneath, or if the roots are potbound. They would all be good reasons to repot it.

Even if it doesn't need an urgent repot, you should probably do a refresh of all the top soil with kanuma, and get rid of the remaining weeds and moss off the trunk and roots.

 

[yashu]

Those look like some decent trunks to start with but as @rockm said it doesn’t seem they’ve been tended to in quite a long time.

 

[yashu]

Even if it doesn't need an urgent repot, you should probably do a refresh of all the top soil with kanuma, and get rid of the remaining weeds and moss off the trunk and roots.

Looks like they are already in kanuma, a little soji once the weeds are gone might be the only pressing issue

 

[rockm]

View attachment 539507View attachment 539508

You think i need to repot quickly?

Don't know. That's not great looking soil. There may be issues brewing already that may be reflected in the sparse chlorotic top growth. Best thing to do is see if the soil drains well or at least isn't stagnant, also lifting the plants slightly out of the pot can tell you a lot. If these are imports from Japan (and they look like it to me from the trunks and the anchor wiring), they're wired pretty well into the pot. You're going to have to either work around that, or cut it loose. These should have been repotted a long time ago, at least a year after importation. from the look of the pots and soil, it's been considerably longer. Someone looks to have just been watering them for years and not tending them.

It all boils down to does the soil drain? If no repot this spring, next spring definitely. These are satsuki azaleas, correct? If so they need acidic soil and you might want to check the pH of your water.. Ideally should be just below 7. Anything higher than that are you will have issues.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Congratulations on your new purchases!
First thing first can you click on your icon atop the page, then account details and enter a nearby city vs just Switzerland, like Basal or Zurich etc? This helps for questions of this nature.

Can see one is a satsuki. Chuko no Tsuki? Can you please see if there is a name on the other one?

My first impressions were

1. both are pretty beat up from the winter and lack of maintenance for two years (based on the unpruned whorls)
2. the first shown is under potted. The second could also might use a larger pot by repotting ti….. but not sure.
3. both nebari and top hamper need work, but not until the health of the trees are restored

First water the tree and see if the water percolates fairly quickly. Doubt it will not percolate from your images. If percolation is good:

a. Obtain the next size up tokoname pot for the first tree. (looks like that’s what they are both potted In.) Tokaname pots have the size number cast on the bottom. Just get the next higher number.

b. Also pick up a bag of kanuma and about 10% of same sized pumice. This ought to be enough to slip pot the larger trunked azalea and cover most of the roots of both… and to repot next year.

c. Finally see about obtaining some Yamagoke (also known as Mountain Moss) to be used to cover the media.

d. Then upon the first azalea in the larger pot. Just loosen up the outer and bottom soil when doing so.

e. Fill the extra space with a 90/10% mix kanuma/pumice (we use 5% biochar on top of this, but not needed now… might want to get it for repotting next year) Be sure tree is wired gently, but firmly down.

f. Wet the moss ahead of time and tuck in the moss to 0.6-0.7 cm thick.. Most of the steps are covered in this thread Post 49

g. Please don’t prune until we get a look at the condition of the tree after blooming, or June if it does not bloom.

Hope this helps.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[DavideArisi]

Congratulations on your new purchases!
First thing first can you click on your icon atop the page, then account details and enter a nearby city vs just Switzerland, like Basal or Zurich etc? This helps for questions of this nature.

Can see one is a satsuki. Chuko no Tsuki? Can you please see if there is a name on the other one?

My first impressions were

1. both are pretty beat up from the winter and lack of maintenance for two years (based on the unpruned whorls)
2. the first shown is under potted. The second could also might use a larger pot by repotting ti….. but not sure.
3. both nebari and top hamper need work, but not until the health of the trees are restored

First water the tree and see if the water percolates fairly quickly. Doubt it will not percolate from your images. If percolation is good:

a. Obtain the next size up tokoname pot for the first tree. (looks like that’s what they are both potted In.) Tokaname pots have the size number cast on the bottom. Just get the next higher number.

b. Also pick up a bag of kanuma and about 10% of same sized pumice. This ought to be enough to slip pot the larger trunked azalea and cover most of the roots of both… and to repot next year.

c. Finally see about obtaining some Yamagoke (also known as Mountain Moss) to be used to cover the media.

d. Then upon the first azalea in the larger pot. Just loosen up the outer and bottom soil when doing so.

e. Fill the extra space with a 90/10% mix kanuma/pumice (we use 5% biochar on top of this, but not needed now… might want to get it for repotting next year) Be sure tree is wired gently, but firmly down.

f. Wet the moss ahead of time and tuck in the moss to 0.6-0.7 cm thick.. Most of the steps are covered in this thread Post 49

g. Please don’t prune until we get a look at the condition of the tree after blooming, or June if it does not bloom.

Hope this helps.

cheers
DSD sends

Thank you
First thing I modified my profile, anyway i live near Lugano in Tessin.
The plants certainly come from Japan, how many years ago? certainly as you said a few years ago and since then they have only been watered.
The first one is Shuho-no Hikari, unfortunately the second has no tag.

The water filters quite well, just tried it.

Therefore you recommend just changing the pot, taking one of a larger size, and then repotting next spring?
Even if my English is quite good it is not my mother tongue, sometimes I lose the meaning of the speech, you have to excuse me.

I don't understand where to put the moss, between the new layer of kanuma at the bottom of the new pot and the roots? And then kanuma/pumice again on top to cover exposed root?

Thank you
Davide

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Thank you
First thing I modified my profile, anyway i live near Lugano in Tessin.

I saw that . Thanks this data helps us answer these sorts of questions

The plants certainly come from Japan, how many years ago? certainly as you said a few years ago and since then they have only been watered.
The first one is Shuho-no Hikari, unfortunately the second has no tag.

Unfortunate but not a deal breaker

The water filters quite well, just tried it.

Great!

Therefore you recommend just changing the pot, taking one of a larger size, and then repotting next spring?

This process is called slip potting. I’m doing at least one this afternoon on azaleas. I will send you photos of the process. Only do this to the Shuho-no Hikari. So line up your materials?

The other azalea simply add media so that it’s much higher, covering most of the nebari to encourage fine foot formation. (Actually you will do this part to both azaleas to finish the jobs.)

Even if my English is quite good it is not my mother tongue, sometimes I lose the meaning of the speech, you have to excuse me.

No worries. My English isn’t either (At least that’s what my Mom always told me so). We deal with folks from all over the world, so not to worry.

The main idea is you feel welcome here and understand what others are saying. So feel free to ask folks to say another way if you do not understand.

I don't understand where to put the moss, between the new layer of kanuma at the bottom of the new pot and the roots? And then kanuma/pumice again on top to cover exposed root?

Thank you
Davide

The moss goes on the top. I’ll show this in the photos. But please check out the link that I sent earlier. Click the link below and scroll to #49. This does illustrate a full root wash and repot but the last image shows the moss on top.

Most of the steps are covered in this thread Post 49

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Glaucus]

These look to be of very poor health. Especially the second one. I wouldn't buy from that place again unless it is a newly imported plant.

I would repot these in new kanuma. Don't work the roots too hard in terms of how much kanuma you are removing. If they were very healthy, you would do that. But now you need to priotizie short time health. Prune off all the very weak, dead, or bald branches, or branches with damaged leaves only. Keep the nebari covered up. Put them in a shaded spot. Ideally a bright spot with no direct sunlight past 11 in the morning.
And water when the kanuma starts to get white.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Personally would like to keep as much of the feeder roots as possible. Also not to trim until summer to guide its response. This will also allow OP time to study up a bit.

If the roots look awful OP can always go for a full bore repot. but for me that would be a last resort.

Slip potting basics - Similar to repot, only lightly work roots on top, sides and bottom to free up roots

Clean off moss, use chop stick to work the surface roots outward radially.

Cut wires.



Use a tool to loosen side rots and pull out of the pot. Remove old wires


Once out of the pot inspect for areas of black roots. Note the surface roots area a bit black, that from skyfall (dust etc) gathering in moss area. This is ok. One can see the importance of decent moss layer. It acts as a filter, keeping the particles out of the media.

Trim off any black areas below the surface. These dead areas usually appear in patches. If there are lots of deep black areas check to see the roots are black all through. If yellow white inside likely ok.


Loosen roots on bottom and side. Gently remove any matted roots in these areas.

Prepare pot


Place in pot and make circle motion to set. Join wires and tie down, but leave a bit of play.


Add more kanuma mix. Use chopstick and gently rock tree to get kanuma mix under tree. Add on sides chop stick lightly.
Tighten wires.



Take wads of moss that has been in water for an hours and hydrated and tuck all the way around the pot sides. Push f down on the surface if the kanamu mix moves around too much.


Do the same to the nebari tucking all the way around the main bulge. Fill in the areas between.


Rinse with watering wand thoroughly Then submerge for about 10 minutes. Then rinse again


Place in morning sun afternoon shade.

Fertilize every 2 weeks 1/4 strength with Miracle Gro except when above 32C.

Also add 4-8 Bio gold or equivalent every 6 weeks soon as slip pot is done.

I think @bonsai-max found a similar fertilizer to this in Switzerland

Please post images every so often

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

These look to be of very poor health. Especially the second one. I wouldn't buy from that place again unless it is a newly imported plant.

Yep, you are definitely right.. but have seen similar condition azaleas respond well after the -9.6 C week long spell we had last winter.

We will cross our fingers?

Best
DSD sends

 

[DavideArisi]

Hi guys
Finally the kanuma arrived, and found the time to repot this afternoon.

I started with the Shuho-no Hikari



The substrate is definitely kanuma. Having never worked with this I can't say for sure but to me it seems old, almost floury.
I cleaned up the top, sides and bottom a bit. cut some dry roots.
I discovered, to my disappointment, the almost total absence of finer root.

Overall, despite the problems listed, the situation does not seem critical for the survival,at least to me.



Repot done, in a larger pot, added sphagnum moss ( i couldn’t find mountain moss).

At this point I started working with the second one, which I learned from the dealer is also a Satsuki, called Akemi no Tsuki.



In this case I admit that I was impressed by how neglected it was.
The roots of the plant are in the peat, black, very compact, in fact the health conditions in this case are worse.
kanuma is only at the bottom of the pot, where there aren't even any roots.
it almost seems that during the last repotting the plant was just placed on top.

At this point, since there are few root, i decided to not cut it at all but try to eliminate as much peat as possible, to allow aeration.


I haven't been able to get it all off, but if it survives I'll probably wash it off next year, and see clearer root healt.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Good Job. Certainly not an optimal situation, but you gave it a good effort to make the best of things!

Hmm…. The first seems a bit dry. Also some dark possibly really iffy roots. Don’t know if dead, damaged or just have worst outer coating… some cultivars older roots seem darker then others.

Usually we cut dead roots off as azaleas don’t put more roots in an area with dead roots. One tree we have came with a 1/5 of the root ball dead. Took a cut back and four years to recover.

The second tree a bit better and in less than desirable media. Good the roots were cleaned. fwiw if not done usually flush/spray the roots while working to prevent damage.

Fingers crossed!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[DavideArisi]

Yes,you are right, in the first one I found some dry roots, which even a child could have recognised. Then I watered the roots and at that point, not having an expert eye, I preferred to be cautious. Maybe next year

In the second, I don't think I could have done anything else.
The photo was taken before spraying.

Making a big assumption that they survive and recover, how can i work to get finer root,considering the current structure of the roots?
Thanks

Davide

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

This is all in the care.

First Usually we bury the roots a bit deeper than one would think.

Second getting moss to grow thick on the surface is very important. That’s why Yamagoke is best. It grows well if kept moist. Spagnum does not, it’s merely a platform for other mosses to grow on.(I’m sure it’s sold in Europe given the images of azaleas posted. Maybe @Glaucus, @clem or @Wires_Guy_wires can help give a source for yamagoke) This layer of kanuma and especially the moss keeps the roots cool and moist so they proliferate around the pot and fuse to create a nebari.

Not doing so is the main reason why good azaleas are hindered in growing decent nebari.

Here’s a Chinzan being uprooted as we write. It was a pole in a pot three years ago.



It’s not a one off. There are many similar examples in the collection.

fwiw: It is my opinion that Biochar also accelerates this growth, assisting moisture retention and increasing the amount and health of the microorganisms in the rhizosphere.

Also forget about flowers this year and remove 1/2 next.

Keep in morning sun till 10 and part shade now. Also start fertilization 1/2 strength in two weeks. Do not fertilize weekend when above 32C, but can use liquid 2 days before.

Gotta get back to work. Good luck and keep us posted.

Cheers
DSD sends