Needing a bit of help with Japanese maple ID.

[Maples N More Nursery]

I have a few of these that are labeled Acer palmatum Seigen. I have seen pics/information on the internet that says it is similar to Shindeshojo/Corallinium group here stateside. Bonsai nurseries in the UK/Canada have the same cultivar that I have. This pic was taken on April 13, 2024 in western NC under 55% greenhouse poly. Any thoughts?

Here are a few bonsai sites that has the same one I have.

Acer palmatum SEIGEN from Maillot-Erable - The store MAILLOT-ERABLE

Acer palmatum SEIGEN Also called seigai. The leaves are bright pink ribbed with greenish yellow in spring, dark green in summer, and reddish orange in autumn. Often grown as bonsais. Trees on 3 liter pot are on or about 25 to 30 cm height.

www.maillot-erable.com

Seigen (2025)

'Seigen' Japanese Maple (1 unit)IMPORTED FROM JAPANVery limited supply Cutting-grown (no grafts!)These are cutting-grown plants, shape and size vary. They are young enough that shape does not matter because they can still become anything you want them to be. The goal here is to get one of the...

www.canadabonsai.com

https://milbornebuds.co.uk/index.php?id_product=150&rewrite=acer-palmatum-seigen-&controller=product

 

[19Mateo83]

@Canada Bonsai ?

 

[Shibui]

One of the problems with Japanese maple cultivars is that some growers germinate seed then label the seedlings with the original parent name. Even if the seedlings look visually similar there will still be some genetic differences because they are sexually reproduced. When another well meaning nursery gets hold of those dubious but labelled seedlings and start to propagate, the new cultivar spreads but under the original cultivar name.
Many years ago there were already several different strains all labelled Acer palmatum 'atropurpureum'. I'd bet there are many more dubious cultivars now.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Without true provenance, it wouldn’t be good to “release it to the wild” as a named cultivar, since it could dilute the known cultivars.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I've been pretty outspoken about never 'guessing' the cultivar of anything. As @Brian Van Fleet noted, there's an risk with doing that and, I would add, it's a risk that a handful of individuals have taken in the USA which has caused chaos for 3 otherwise excellent cultivars: beni chidori, seigen, and deshoho. I won't name names, but there are individuals who have even been contacted by international societies responsible for Japanese maple cultivar registration, preservation, and taxonomy, and who none the less continue to sell their non-seigen material as seigen.

Putting all that aside you may very well have true seigen, but it's impossible to say. As you're clearly aware, light, nutrients, etc. all affect coloration and even shape, so putting 2 strains side by side to compare them doesn't always solve the problem either.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Hi Horace! I have two different Seigens -both from reputable breeders - and they don't look the same. One is from the east coast, one from the west. Sadly at some point the lines got confused, or else someone started selling Seigen seedlings as true cultivars, and the purity was lost. You really can't ID cultivars visually if you don't have the provenance. It would be one thing if you had two trees and knew the two cultivars and the tags had just fallen off and you were trying to tell which was which. But without any clue it is impossible to do visually.