Mastering Bonsai or rather having mastered Bonsai

[my nellie]

The thing is, Anthony doesn't create the trees. K does. Anthony only waters and pull weeds!... ...

Dear Adair, I can really understand your point of view as well as I can understand Anthony's.
So I can also understand your frustration because of the fact that Anthony "only waters and pulls weeds"
There is really something that the Western mentalité will never be in a position to grasp.
And this is humility. Humility as a virtue.
Watering and weeding seem to be less significant or not significant at all, thus low and menial works to do. While "designing" is by all means kind of "spiritual" work which adds some "quality" to the person who designs.

If you read the words of Anthony carefully with no prism (any kind of) to read through, then you will start to get the point...

... ...I can trim to tidy, repot, but just not design... ...
I can prune just by looking at his designs. Just can't really create the Design.
I can also build by slab pots from K's designs... ...

... ...Hey, we water by hand, and it allows a very personal connection to each plant.
Weeding gives you chance to really observe what is happening to the plant.
The idea behind looking after something is simply ------- Love.
Making the soil, the pots, even the tools represent personal effort... ...
Clay is found, cleaned, and processed. Often samples pre-fired to determine contractions,so you end up with the shape designed to the inch or cm if you prefer.Glazes are designed to fit expansions, and designed from scratch, not bought in a jar.
Just to give that tree it's special home. And the pots are hand built, not wheel turned.
So yeah, we are different and restrictive, if you want to think so... ...

So now, what percentage do all these humble works sum up into the creation of the tree in your opinion?
Moreover, do you believe that your generosity of teaching Anthony about the Pines was really in vain?
Do you believe that all the knowledge you have shared with him has nothing to do with those humble works he executes?

... ...Plus we study how to work with nature ---------- emphasis --------- Health.
Additionally we don't force trees into anything... ...

And this is the most important of all, I think.

 

[Adair M]

Sorry, I have a different point of view:

"Bonsai - obedience training for trees"

Weeding gives you a chance to really look at the trees?

Ha! What about pulling needles? Counting how many pairs are remaining on each twig? What about wiring out each twig? Decandling?

Sorry, weeding and watering (which I do by hand also) are menial tasks compared to what I do with my Pines.

 

[twisted trees]

Sorry, I have a different point of view:

"Bonsai - obedience training for trees"

Weeding gives you a chance to really look at the trees?

Ha! What about pulling needles? Counting how many pairs are remaining on each twig? What about wiring out each twig? Decandling?

Sorry, weeding and watering (which I do by hand also) are menial tasks compared to what I do with my Pines.

I think what they are trying to say, sifu, is that for them there is no distinction between the value of weeding or designing. Each are as important or not important as each other.

 

[StoneCloud]

I have been reading through this and have been a little confused and torn.

But now I see why so many people are "quiet" in Bonsai and keep to themselves.

Everyone thinks they are better than the next person........I don't understand why.

Water is the source of life and watering correctly is essential.

If this was such a menial task ( no argument just a sincere question).......then why does it take years for apprentices to be allowed to water trees?

Yet a short time to prune, maintain, etc..........?

 

[twisted trees]

I have been reading through this and have been a little confused and torn.

But now I see why so many people are "quiet" in Bonsai and keep to themselves.

Everyone thinks they are better than the next person........I don't understand why.

Water is the source of life and watering correctly is essential.

If this was such a menial task ( no argument just a sincere question).......then why does it take years for apprentices to be allowed to water trees?

Yet a short time to prune, maintain, etc..........?

I'm surprised you made through all this without drugs.

 

[PiñonJ]

@Anthony, I've been tutoring you on JBP technique,
and general bonsai technique for several years. And now you tell me that all you do is water and pull weeds.

So, all my time spent with you is wasted.

If @Anthony and K approach bonsai as a team and, as a team, they and their trees benefit from your tutelage, do you still feel your time is wasted?

I'm sorry, I try to help those that actually work on their trees, and try to improve them. Not waste my time with poseurs.

I can understand your frustration, but I don't get the anger here.

Sorry, weeding and watering (which I do by hand also) are menial tasks compared to what I do with my Pines.

This is more than a little patronizing. I'll admit, I'm often bemused by Anthony's posts, but he has chosen an approach to bonsai in which he is part of a team. While this wouldn't be my choice (though I do enjoy the teamwork in the courses I take), I can absolutely relate to the meditative benefit he gets from bonsai culture. Perhaps I'm missing something, since I'm not privy to any private messages the two of you have exchanged, but your reaction seems quite hostile.

 

[StoneCloud]

I'm surprised you made through all this without drugs.

Lmao!

It almost felt like taking drugs

 

[Anthony]

@PiñonJ ,

oh no no no ---------- no private messages ------- this is why you see me teasing Sifu with the ---------
don't send him to negotiate with ISIS.

This is how Sifu speaks. You get used to his speech.
I am actually preparing an image or two for his viewing in the Pine section.
He would need an image to illustrate how the Japanese in Bonsai Today can get 3 inch trunks
in 5 years in clay pots.

@StoneCloud ,

Sifu has forgotten that I have watered and weeded since I was 24 and was actually there when K around 16/17 started
to try his hand at Bonsai --------- we did grow up as backyard neighbours, and his mum and dad treated
me as a son.
I am going to be 54 in September, so I have 30 years of Bonsai.
I handled the plants over the years when K was away on commissions, which is why I can also repot.
I also prune from his drawn Designs.

I believe I have left a few of those designs on this site and there are some on IBC.

It was I who changed his house to Solar Power [ wind coming in next ] and I handle the power on all
the other structures.
I built the kilns, and do the visual images.

My contract offered me early retirement, which I took a few years ago. I have been working since 17 out
of University. I worked in Power Generation.
However, my family has an agreement to speak little of our personal business on-line.
So we keep our privacy.

Forgive Sifu, please.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Jeremy]

I thought Adair would've known you are the watering/weed pulling guy, you've mentioned it in plenty of threads @Anthony .
In any case, do you not think by scissor pruning trees you are playing a role in the design? You might be following a drawing but that can only show so much detail. It is you who decides whether to cut to a lateral bud or an upward face one. As you are pruning, do you not envision what each branch will look like over the coming years? After so much time observing you must have a desire to train your own tree, even if you must hide it from K

 

[Adair M]

Anthony likes to troll me.

 

[Adair M]

I have been reading through this and have been a little confused and torn.

But now I see why so many people are "quiet" in Bonsai and keep to themselves.

Everyone thinks they are better than the next person........I don't understand why.

Water is the source of life and watering correctly is essential.

If this was such a menial task ( no argument just a sincere question).......then why does it take years for apprentices to be allowed to water trees?

Yet a short time to prune, maintain, etc..........?

StoneCloud, you have it wrong. The apprentices water from day one. It is said that it takes 10 years to LEARN to water properly! Apprenticeships only last 5 years, lol!

Look, folks, I've been arguing with Anthony for years. He has this notion that trees must be grown to fit the design. A design that is drawn. Sure, you CAN do that, but most of us take larger trees and cut them back to make smaller trees.

John Naka used to take raw material, and style it to get the best tree he could out of the material, and THEN he would draw a picture of it to represent how he thought it might look on the future. But even then, he said it wasn't a blueprint! Lol!!!

 

[StoneCloud]

StoneCloud, you have it wrong. The apprentices water from day one. It is said that it takes 10 years to LEARN to water properly! Apprenticeships only last 5 years, lol!

Thanks for clearing the numbers up! From most of my readings I've gotten the impression they are withheld from watering for a while. Did not know they are allowed to water the trees from day one. Maybe making the decision to water the trees is what all those masters are saying?

 

[MichaelS]

Watering is not menial. Watering is the time when you are giving your trees life and love. Watering is the time when you are closest to your trees. Watering is when you feel the most affection for your trees. Watering is the time when both you and the tree are relaxed and ''living''. Watering is the most pleasurable part of bonsai. Watering is the most important aspect of raising trees in pots. Everything else is sport that distracts you from watering and being with your trees.
Working on trees is not the appreciation part of bonsai.

 

[my nellie]

@MichaelS I do need an applauding emoticon here! I would insert it triplex!

 

[my nellie]

Anthony, may I remind you a question of mine which I have asked...
You have previously said on page 1:

... ...plus the Chinese who came to Trinidad since 1870 or so and were willing to share [ very rare ]... ...

and then I asked you

Why is it so, I wonder...???

Why is it that they are unwilling to share their knowledge?
Thank you.

 

[Anthony]

@my nellie ,

Alexandra, apologies, I have been more focused on ----- trolling Sifu ,

Chinese folk entering the West Indies were / are a peculiar beast.
We have "peasants" and "Hi- faluten "
For example the family of Sun Yat Sen lives in Jamaica.

Traditionally, they are friendly [ somewhat ] but not familiar.

K's grandfather was known as Mr.King, and he ran a dry goods shop.

Very racial, always trying to stay fair of skin. In the 60's I have memories of short
men and black umbrellas scurrying about Port of Spain.
The ones here today, are only interested in going to the US / Canada / UK
It is easier for a Trinidadian to go to those countries than a Chinese citizen.
So they pay a bond and come here to go there.

Example. I frequented a Chinese restaurant for about 10 years, the food was decent.
Then one day I went in and all the faces were new. Everyone previously there had
left for Canada.

They also had a language problem back then [ before Mandarin ] clubs were formed
by dialect, and my aunt had to explain that to me. I thought they were just rude to
each other

The children born of pure Chinese are told that they are not Chinese [ when born in
Trinidad ]
Children born of Negro and Chinese are called Ha Quii [ spelt as it sounds ] translates
to ------- nigger Chinese --------- not a compliment.
Children born of Caucasian and Chinese are called ----------- Chinee Royal in Tobago.

So you learn to stay out of Chinese folk's business and I am half Chinese --------
Hope this explains somewhat.
Anthony

 

[my nellie]

Thanks for the explanation.
I am always eager to learn about other nations/peoples.
Generally speaking I already had the impression that Chinese are extremely secretive...
I once had tried to contact a big Chinese business which has acquired rights at the port of Piraeus but it was a total failure.
No reply either to my emails or via their online forms....
Just take into consideration also that a lot of the company's staff are Greeks

 

[petegreg]

Hey, Anthony, it's a time to switch the responsibilities with K. Let him work hard!

 

[Paradox]

Hey, Anthony, it's a time to switch the responsibilities with K. Let him work hard!

Or maybe try to get more involved with that aspect of things. Grab a few trees to work on yourself. Maybe you can develop the skills and eye for design, but its something you must practice which is true for most, if not all of us that are learning

 

[sorce]

I purchased a trolling motor from tesla just to troll Sifu!

What do yoga pants and Adair have in common?

"What a great ass!"

Is Adair the rightest wrong person....
Or is Anthony the wrongest right person?

Sorce