Let's Compare Bodies!!

[JeffS73]

I meant to say, I can't wait to see what pots come out with the Oribe glaze Nao. I'm glad you can find time to keep experimenting.

Re Clay, I know how little I know! And there's not a lot of info available. I'd like a copy of Robert Tichanes "Clay Bodies" book. I'd probably take the CMW Clay bodies class before I bought that book.

I currently mostly slab build, so I've no idea how the clays I use throw, I just focus on low porosity / absorption, and how they look.
I've got a great grey, v plastic, I can add lots of grog if I want, but the colour comes from chrome, so I can't adjust that easily, although I'd like to vary its tone.

The red and black bodies i use just need neph sy to reduce absorption, and I can blend them for any shade between. They have a great grog blend which adds a lot of interest.

The Buff and white clays I use are bland but they work straight out of the bag. There are a lot of interesting Buff clays in the UK, but until I can fire in reduction, I can't realise their potential. I can wait! One of the things I love about ceramics is just how expansive it is.

 

[Colorado]

I am just a beginner but I’ve really enjoyed working with Laguna B3 Brown. It was nice to build with and I didn’t have any issues with drying or firing. This has been my favorite that I’ve used so far. Although I have only tried a few

I was hoping that RMC would be good because I can get it very cheap locally. I have tried both Flagstone and Chestnut and not a huge fan of either.

 

[JeffS73]

A man after my own heart!

Are those line blends? Are you firing in complete oxidation?

Namako is really tricky, and I went down some wrong roads because of how I was firing. Ignore me if you know all this, but a true namako is only calcium and boron phase separation. You can cheat with rutile/cobalt. Modern floating blues are not historic namakos, but whatever. In the kokufu, you often see failed namakos that are labelled as kinyuu. You don't get the phase separation in neutral or reduction.

These are the exact same namako glaze in different parts of the same gas kiln, for example:
View attachment 453930

The other problem with namako is you get the best phase separation at low alumina levels, but these are too glossy for bonsai. If you look at antique namako pots, they get around this by cooling reallllly slowly and they are also covered in patina. So we are fighting an up hill battle today.

my box of namako:
View attachment 453931

Wow, I didn't know you were trying this glaze.
Sorry to derail from clay, and yet! With oribe and namako you're going to blow some minds... and wallets

You're right, so many dead ends with this one. When I saw the blue was possible with Iron, I realised that Cobalt, rutile, titanium and Manganese were not the wat for the original glazes. Possibly titanium was present in clays, but I don't believe the Chinese potters would have wasted precious Cobalt.
The blue and phase separation are possible simply with iron and bone ash, or traditionally as I believe, P2O5 from plant ashes. So this glaze is possible with Feldspar, limestone, ash and Iron. Complexity from simplicity, wonderful! I believe this is what the Chinese potters knew, my respect for them grows with every firing.
I did not know about the alumina or Boron relationships, thank you for those parts to the puzzle. I know the Japanese added a lot of variants to namako, I have a recipe which fires brown in ox, can't test in reduction yet.

Lots of line blends, No Cobalt. Iron:

P205:

Best blue was with Wollastonite, but it smooths the phase separation:


But none on a pot yet!

 

[HorseloverFat]

Wow, I didn't know you were trying this glaze.
Sorry to derail from clay, and yet! With oribe and namako you're going to blow some minds... and wallets

You're right, so many dead ends with this one. When I saw the blue was possible with Iron, I realised that Cobalt, rutile, titanium and Manganese were not the wat for the original glazes. Possibly titanium was present in clays, but I don't believe the Chinese potters would have wasted precious Cobalt.
The blue and phase separation are possible simply with iron and bone ash, or traditionally as I believe, P2O5 from plant ashes. So this glaze is possible with Feldspar, limestone, ash and Iron. Complexity from simplicity, wonderful! I believe this is what the Chinese potters knew, my respect for them grows with every firing.
I did not know about the alumina or Boron relationships, thank you for those parts to the puzzle. I know the Japanese added a lot of variants to namako, I have a recipe which fires brown in ox, can't test in reduction yet.

Lots of line blends, No Cobalt. Iron:
View attachment 453934
P205:
View attachment 453933
Best blue was with Wollastonite, but it smooths the phase separation:
View attachment 453935

But none on a pot yet!

Don't worry about derailing...

We have a "Mad Sponge" as an Engineer/Conductor...

He's all for "off-roading"..

This is what I wanted... An open discussion of clay chemistry and how it pertains to bodies...We just get MORE than that... How could that possibly be a bad thing?

Glaze chemistry is equally enthralling!

So is digging/processing!!!

We'll swing wild here!!!

 

[NaoTK]

The blue and phase separation are possible simply with iron and bone ash, or traditionally as I believe, P2O5 from plant ashes. So this glaze is possible with Feldspar, limestone, ash and Iron. Complexity from simplicity, wonderful! I believe this is what the Chinese potters knew, my respect

Wonderful! you are right there is a whole world even within namako...

you made a perfect recreation of this type, it probably came from temmoku, the iron-based types


This is the snotty type I am trying to go after, characterized by the pooling: its really thin and glassy

 

[mwar15]

I am that cake box guy. I use bag clay. I have experimented using mason stains and different applications with other underglazes. I’m not to a production level where I can justify making my own clay. I do find it fascinating

 

[sorce]

Aye Hamada....

And his student and the trickle down list.

Amazing Work.

Sorce

 

[zero]

I’ve only been making ceramics for like 6-7 months but I’m soo into it. Most everything I’ve made has been a plant pot or bonsai pot and I’m starting an internship at a local studio. My dark body of choice at the studio is Standard 710. I love the density and characteristics that seem to keep it rigid, whether that’s grog or the ratio of components itself I’ve not the vocabulary yet. As for a lighter body, I haven’t landed on one yet, but someone, I believe Sorce, said if they were to choose a standard clay in white it’d be groleg like 365 or something.. my teacher told me to not start there and start with something like P5, so I’m going to test that out.
There’s so much to learn. Sometimes I feel a bit “too late to the game” as I’m 39, but you know, it could be worse! Finding such a strong passion, better late than never.
If anyone has any suggestions for things for me as a beginner please let me know- I’m going to be learning a lot as I’ll be in a community studio for the next year.

 

[sorce]

@HorseloverFat we know you are the Mad Chemist!

Sorce

 

[HorseloverFat]

Aye Hamada....

And his student and the trickle down list.

Amazing Work.

Sorce

I just watched the Matsuzaki one!

Incredible!!!

7-day fire!?

As a culmination of 6-months work!?!?

Nine-HUNDRED pieces!?!?

I'd LOVE that kind of pressure! (Literal and figurative)

Thank you so much for sharing!!!

I'm going to check out their other videos, too!

 

[michaelj]

Me and my guy at Ceramic Supply joke about selling only shovels and buckets.

If you need more.

You're not a potter!

Dig it?

I got a kick out of watching Andy Ward's Ancient Pottery YouTube channel and I'm going to try to make my own clay this Fall. There are some very good natural clay sources near me and I'm going to put a 5 gallon bucket in my backpack and fill it up one weekend after cool weather returns, and see what I can make out of it.

 

[penumbra]

I got a kick out of watching Andy Ward's Ancient Pottery YouTube channel and I'm going to try to make my own clay this Fall. There are some very good natural clay sources near me and I'm going to put a 5 gallon bucket in my backpack and fill it up one weekend after cool weather returns, and see what I can make out of it.

That is about 55 pounds of clay. I hope the hike isn't long or the terrain too taxing.

 

[HorseloverFat]

That is about 55 pounds of clay. I hope the hike isn't long or the terrain too taxing.

Hehe! I used to wear a backpack on the front and back when climbing the clay/dune/crags.... It gets SOOOO heavy, and then wading through knee-high water to get back to the 8-foot drop that the trail is perched on top of.

I just wish the clay was... "Better"

 

[HorseloverFat]

I got a kick out of watching Andy Ward's Ancient Pottery YouTube channel and I'm going to try to make my own clay this Fall. There are some very good natural clay sources near me and I'm going to put a 5 gallon bucket in my backpack and fill it up one weekend after cool weather returns, and see what I can make out of it.

Your SO LUCKY that you are able to dig high-fire clay!!

If that was the case, near me, this discussion would be very different!

 

[michaelj]

That is about 55 pounds of clay. I hope the hike isn't long or the terrain too taxing.

There are places where I can get to some very heavy clay within a few dozen yards of a place to park. And it's a good backpack. The one I use when I go into the desert to collect California junipers. But if it's ungodly heavy, I'll use my common sense to lighten the load. It's not worth a back injury, for sure.

Do you think it'll be 55 pounds dry? I'm not digging out wet stuff.

 

[HorseloverFat]

.

Do you think it'll be 55 pounds dry? I'm not digging out wet stuff.

Dry to the center???

It won't come out as a powder!

Clay, dry lump volume to weight conversion

Calculate weight of Clay, dry lump per volume, it weighs 928 kg/m³ (57.93315 lb/ft³). Materials, substances and compounds volume to weight conversions

www.aqua-calc.com

This is wonky on my phone, but may help.

 

[michaelj]

Your SO LUCKY that you are able to dig high-fire clay!!

If that was the case, near me, this discussion would be very different!

I have no idea what I'll be able to fire this to. If I can take it to Cone 10, of course, that would be awesome, but as long as I can get it to Cone 6, with or without cutting it with other ingredients, I'm going to start using native clay from time to time. It's too much work to try to use it exclusively, though.

 

[michaelj]

Dry to the center???

It won't come out as a powder!

Clay, dry lump volume to weight conversion

Calculate weight of Clay, dry lump per volume, it weighs 928 kg/m³ (57.93315 lb/ft³). Materials, substances and compounds volume to weight conversions

www.aqua-calc.com

This is wonky on my phone, but may help.

I don't know exactly how dry it'll be. I've hiked the area quite a few times, when I did, I had no reason to specifically look at the dirt. That said, my recollection is that in October, it's pretty darn dry. Even the stream beds are dry to at least a few inches deep. That I know because I have dug some rocks out in that area before.

A 5 gallon bucket is about 2/3 of a cubic foot. So that's close to 40 pounds even if it's dry as a bone. If it's not dry, it'll be heavier, but it'll also probably come off in larger chunks that will leave a lot more air in my bucket than if I'm filling it with dirt and gravel-sized chunks of dried clay deposits.

I won't really know until I get up there. I'm assuming there will be a few surprises. This is uncharted territory for me. Up to now, the only clay I've sourced or "made" myself was my casting slip.

 

[JeffS73]

Aye Hamada....

And his student and the trickle down list.

Amazing Work.

Sorce

Loved that Phil Rogers interview, Richard Coles asks some very pertinent questions.

Here's a question re clay bodies:
What size and how much grog do you use for a 12-18in pot? I'm wondering if I can still use my slab and rib method at that size, or if I would have to start press moulding.
I find with the black clay that I've added neph sy to, the base (6mm) will sag a bit on a 7in pot.

 

[sorce]

Loved that Phil Rogers interview, Richard Coles asks some very pertinent questions.

Here's a question re clay bodies:
What size and how much grog do you use for a 12-18in pot? I'm wondering if I can still use my slab and rib method at that size, or if I would have to start press moulding.
I find with the black clay that I've added neph sy to, the base (6mm) will sag a bit on a 7in pot.

Almost all sagging, especially with black clay, is an over flux of reduced iron.
I've found that they all do fine with more oxygen and fired slower.

In an electric, put a vent.

Sorce