Las Vegas...

Dav4 said:
I've already said many times here in this thread that I don't have the answers. I agree that the news and social media are culpable in exploiting these episodes along with the victims... but I think you'd be infringing on their Ist Amendment rights to do as you propose above, kinda like gun control and the 2nd Amendment. All I know is that "the shooter" was able to do what he did the way he did it because he had access to the weapons he used. You even said yourself that the guy likely had no formal weapons or military training... but boom... worst mass shooting to date. Without the weaponry, he couldn't have done it the way he did... and yes, I know that's a slippery slope.
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If I really wanted to kill a lot of people, I wouldn't use a rifle. The US security establishment does not consider a lone gunman to be a particularly great threat. The media hypes the heck out of these events because they make a lot of money doing so... and they generate "me-too" lone gunman shootings while trying to figure out the "motive" of the shooters' behavior. Oh the irony!

If I needed to, I could manufacture a fully automatic rifle in my garage. It isn't hard - people have been doing it by hand for 100 years. An AR-15 is a pretty basic thing with 101 parts (total) including every screw and spring. I think only one part is restricted. An AK-47 has 82 parts - only one of which is a restricted part.

For what it's worth, I think the creation of bump stocks and similar products crosses the line from legal semi-automatic performance, to illegal automatic performance. I would change the gun law to broaden the definition of automatic weaponry to include any accessories that allow an assisted rate of fire higher than a manual finger pull on the trigger.
 
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As to the "going out in a blaze of glory" theory.

I have to wonder if they kill themselves because they have a sudden realization of what they have just done or the dont want to end up in jail for the rest of their life.

I mean, if you're not around to enjoy the noteriety, what's the point of doing it for the noteriety?

Maybe that's too rational a thought for these circumstances.
 
Ok I am British guns here are illegal, (there are a few , very few gun crimes and certainly no 250 people shot in a few minutes as in Vegas). that is here. Guns in the USA are legal so fine you can have a gun to hunt or defend yourself and family .What I do not understand is being able to openly purchase and own an automatic ?
What the hell does anyone need an automatic weapon for that is legal?
 
clive bennett said:
What the hell does anyone need an automatic weapon for that is legal?
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They aren't legal. If you modify your rifle to allow for automatic fire, you are breaking the law and making your rifle an illegal weapon. This guy apparently used an after-market accessory to allow "automatic fire simulation performance" which I think is marketing bullshit, personally. There is no difference in my opinion between "automatic fire simulation performance" and automatic performance, and these products should be taken off the market.

Paradox said:
I have to wonder if they kill themselves because they have a sudden realization of what they have just done or the dont want to end up in jail for the rest of their life.
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Because I believe that they are living out a dark fantasy... killing as many people as possible and then killing themselves in order to die "undefeated". To get taken down by Police, dragged away to stand trial, have the entire nation sneer at you, and then die crying while strapped down into an execution chair does not fit their version of whatever dark fantasy they are living out. These people are suicidal and have already decided (for one reason or other) to end their lives. The dark part is that once they decide they are going to die, they don't really care what they do to others - it doesn't matter to them. I really believe that many of them think that they aren't the ones who turned their back on society - society turned their back on them. They are loners and view themselves as victims - and society as the perpetrator. Therefore they feel no remorse in killing others; they view it as an act of vengeance.

But I'm no psychologist... this is my personal opinion only.
 
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clive bennett said:
Ok I am British guns here are illegal, (there are a few , very few gun crimes and certainly no 250 people shot in a few minutes as in Vegas). that is here. Guns in the USA are legal so fine you can have a gun to hunt or defend yourself and family .What I do not understand is being able to openly purchase and own an automatic ?
What the hell does anyone need an automatic weapon for that is legal?
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the weapons were not automatic.

because gun laws here are stupid and passed by people who dont know anything about them other than they are scary looking. there is a way to make a semi auto gun operate similarly to a full auto without technically altering the guns action - its called a bumpstock or slide fire - they run around 250 dollars and are completely legal based on the technicality of the law.

and the vast majority of gun owners do not like or use them, they are inaccurate and useless other than the "fun" factor of firing in simulated full auto at a range etc.
 
Bonsai Nut said:
If I really wanted to kill a lot of people, I wouldn't use a rifle. The US security establishment does not consider a lone gunman to be a particularly great threat. The media hypes the heck out of these events because they make a lot of money doing so... and they generate "me-too" lone gunman shootings while trying to figure out the "motive" of the shooters' behavior. Oh the irony!
Completely agree... they are as culpable at the increase in these instances as any one entity other then the one pulling the trigger.

If I needed to, I could manufacture a fully automatic rifle in my garage. It isn't hard - people have been doing it by hand for 100 years. An AR-15 is a pretty basic thing with 101 parts (total) including every screw and spring. I think only one part is restricted. An AK-47 has 82 parts - only one of which is a restricted part.
I get that. I still don't understand why these weapons, that are apparently easily modified to become even more lethal, are so easily had.

For what it's worth, I think the creation of bump stocks and similar products crosses the line from legal semi-automatic performance, to illegal automatic performance. I would change the gun law to broaden the definition of automatic weaponry to include any accessories that allow an assisted rate of fire higher than a manual finger pull on the trigger.
Sounds like a good idea!
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watchndsky said:
the weapons were not automatic.

because gun laws here are stupid and passed by people who dont know anything about them other than they are scary looking. there is a way to make a semi auto gun operate similarly to a full auto without technically altering the guns action - its called a bumpstock or slide fire - they run around 250 dollars and are completely legal based on the technicality of the law.

and the vast majority of gun owners do not like or use them, they are inaccurate and useless other than the "fun" factor of firing in simulated full auto at a range etc.
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I admit my ignorance of these type of guns , but please explain why any one would want (or be allowed to own) a semi automatic. I am not anti gun, Lorries/ vans seem to be just as capable a weapon for nutters over hear) but hunters surely dont spray out loads of bullets when hunting game and you do not need semi auto fire for protection do you?
 
clive bennett said:
I admit my ignorance of these type of guns , but please explain why any one would want (or be allowed to own) a semi automatic. I am not anti gun, Lorries/ vans seem to be just as capable a weapon for nutters over hear) but hunters surely dont spray out loads of bullets when hunting game and you do not need semi auto fire for protection do you?
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Its not about huntimg and yes you do meed semi auto. All semi auto means is one round firedfor one squeeze of trigger. Just like double action revolvers it just a different design that allows more than the usual six rounds
 
clive bennett said:
I admit my ignorance of these type of guns , but please explain why any one would want (or be allowed to own) a semi automatic. I am not anti gun, Lorries/ vans seem to be just as capable a weapon for nutters over hear) but hunters surely dont spray out loads of bullets when hunting game and you do not need semi auto fire for protection do you?
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Semi-auto only means that you have to pull the trigger again for a second round to be fired.

Full-auto releases multiple rounds with a single trigger pull.

Many hunting rifles are semi automatic.
Some are bolt action which requires you to load the chamber with the next round between shots. Shot guns are similar to that. At least I cant recall if there are true semi auto shotguns atm. There probably are.
 
Paradox said:
Semi-auto only means that you have to pull the trigger again for a second round to be fired.

Full-auto releases multiple rounds with a single trigger pull.

Many hunting rifles are semi automatic.
Some are bolt action which requires you to load the chamber with the next round between shots. Shot guns are similar to that.
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Semi auto shotguns are also much easier on the shoulder and easier for women or younger shooters to handle as they absob more recoil as part of the action
 
watchndsky said:
Semi auto shotguns are also much easier on the shoulder and easier for women or younger shooters to handle as they absob more recoil as part of the action
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Now that I think about it, I had a semi auto shotgun for bird hunting when I was still living in Maine before I went to college out of state. It was nice and easy to shoot. It also had a recoiling barrel which was even easier.
 
Paradox said:
Now that I think about it, I had a semi auto shotgun when I was still living in Maine before I want to college out of state. It was nice and easy to shoot. Or also had a recoiling barrelwhich was even easier.
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Yeh my ex really got into shooting clays once she tried a semi instead of my over under
 
watchndsky said:
Yeh my ex really got into shooting clays once she tried a semi instead of my over under
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It's all about the shell. I have a 12 gauge semi-automatic. I can fire bird loads all day long. Buckshot is a little harder on the shoulder but still doable with just a t-shirt. I don't like firing slugs unless I am wearing at least a sweatshirt. And these are the 2 3/4" standard shells not the 3" magnums.

Compared to a 12 gauge, a 5.56mm rifle feels like a pellet gun.
 
Bonsai Nut said:
and these products should be taken off the market.
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Here it would not make any difference as I know they can be machined, even full auto trigger assemblies for Ruger 10/22's. Not many years ago prints for many types were easily available online... I know.

Bonsai Nut said:
I don't like firing slugs unless I am wearing at least a sweatshirt.
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Hold it tighter to your shoulder, then your legs take the recoil, serious it works and your legs don't notice. :)

Grimmy
 
barrosinc said:
Correlation does not imply causation... you are taking an example where a country already has a gun problem and you go and ban them. Or a country that has no homicide problem.
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And also not true, Switzerland isn't even the lowest in Europe never mind the world....but nice meme...
 
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