Pierre and Vance, P. Murrayanna all over here. The locals call em jack pine and spend more time figuring out how to thin them out rather than plant them. I've seen them occasionally in specialty mail order, or native plant nurseries. But if you live in their range, they seem to just fill in any open cleared or burned areas anyway.
Landscape Mugo Yamadori
- Thread starter Arcto
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0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I think first freeze 15 Nov or so, historically. But it really only freezes hard when we get that occasional blast from the Frazier River Valley. On the other hand, we always have more than 1700 hours below 40F (coastal Douglas firs have been here for nore than a few centuries).
A sudden hard freeze is what will do your tree in. The nice sequence of generally decreasing temperatures with night-time freeze and day time thaw is what you want as this causes the tissues to sugar-up (sugar in cellular tissues is antifreeze). I'm sure you know to either bury/mulch the roots or bring the tree into the shed or garage when a sudden drop in temperatures (below 15F) is in the forecast.
So, you've been here, huh? Going out to the San Juans? It is a cool place- every day is another damn day in paradise
Sadly, our travel plans are on hold. Moving, trying to sell old house,etc. We typically get hard freezes here by the end of August. Last spring I moved my fully leafed out J. maples here in April which in hindsight was pretty poor planning. Last may I collected Mt Hemlock, WW Pine, Manzanita with good success rates. We seem to have different season windows here that frankly, I'm still figuring out.
sdavis
Mame
The first killing frost (into the 20s) in Central Oregon is usually the third week in Sept. Last year on Nov 7 we had single digit temps at nite that killed many conifers. That rarely happens in Anacortes. Be careful about applying Anacortes' temps and climate to central Oregon's.
I find that June and July repotting in central OR gives more recovery time.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Your 'central OR' must be in the cascades. The climate from Burns to Bend is pretty much the same as the Snake River Valley in eastern ID and the same a virtually all of eastern CO. Those sudden hard freezes sure are killers, even in CA.
So, how early in June do you succeed with repotting? Is the new foliage hardened or still elongating?
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
White pines are also dropping sheaths here (Anacortes) as well. I suspect this is triggered by shortening day light hours - it is now about 6 weeks after the summer solstice and day lengths are 'obviously' getting shorter. Trunk/stem thickening works this way.
Yes, interesting how this comes about. I transplanted a bristlecone this May. It pouted a while then threw out new growth. 5" candles, but still a ways from hardening. It's out of synch due to the transplant. Vance maybe happy to hear that it is a bonsai candidate in a while, although not one of the ancient old ones he desires. You are right about the cascades location. I'm almost 900' higher than bend here and a bit cooler. I guess last spring hammered caution into my head where logic failed.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I have researched everything I can find published about Bristelcone Pines all three species of it and the odds of harvesting a millennial tree are very small for a variety of reasons. Most of the regions where these trees exist are protected and are at such high altitudes and severe conditions the harvesting is impossible. Younger and less stressed versions may still be collectable growing in places where they take on some of these extreme forms. I noticed very many of them growing in the mountains above the Air Force Academy.
Vance, you are right. In the US you can add possibly alpine larch and white bark pine and at least 2 manzanitas to the list. And I don't even have any knowledge of the east half of the US and it's restrictions. Mine is just a typical nursery- landscape tree planted several years ago and relocated by me this past spring. I'm just thinking I might rather see it in a pot than the ground.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Even at that I have seen very few BC Pines. I have heard complaints that they are so slow but five inches is not three feet but neither is it 1/4", which is the claim some have put on it. You do realize there are three varities of BC Pines and they are subtly different. I am not capable of telling you the difference between they but the rate of growth is one of them. I hope at some point you will share how you are doing with the tree.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
My opinion: you are wasting your time and bench space on this tree. It might have trunk size but it is extremely leggy and unless you can get reasonable backbudding, it will never be a bonsai. Even if you can get backbudding, it will take decades to make anything out of. You need to get a definite identification on species to even know if it is possible and how to go about it.
I've been wondering if I could accelerate the above ground work on this tree by using the established root system in the ground. One thing I considered was putting a major bend in the main trunk. Once in a pot I figured it would take years waiting for the root system to get to where I could try this. I had undisturbed solid root system here. Due to the drought, the tree wasn't very turgid. It also had a 8' long whippy trunk I could put tremendous torque on by myself.
You can see I put enough bend on it that the top is lying on the ground.
An unplanned benefit was that these weak interior branches are exposed to light without a major trunk chop.
The trunk was about 10% past vertical the opposite direction before I started the bend. Good idea or stupid? It's out here now. Fire at will.
You can see I put enough bend on it that the top is lying on the ground.An unplanned benefit was that these weak interior branches are exposed to light without a major trunk chop. The trunk was about 10% past vertical the opposite direction before I started the bend. Good idea or stupid? It's out here now. Fire at will.
Collecting areas here are still under deep snow. That means my projects in the landscape here get molested this time of year. I decided to dig the mystery pine out. I did all I could with it in the ground there. It really needed to get out of that deep shade before it declined. I ended up removing 4' of the top to make it manageable. The bend I put in it is holding so far. There are a few spindly branches near the base to work with, but this maybe a grafting project. 
You can better see the branch/trunks I removed a year and a half ago. When it was dug, you could see the remainder of a 1 gallon soil and rootmass. It was a nursery plant as apposed to a native hybrid. 
About 3.5" above the bottom branch spread. A bit of a long term project.
Giga
Masterpiece
Man you chopped dem roots up, give it tender loving care. Hope it pulls through!
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I could be wrong but you removed way too many roots. Curious; upon whose advise or teaching did you do this to the roots? I don't see any feeder roots at all.
The photo is a little confusing. All the large cuts at the base of the tree were branches, not roots. Those were removed a couple of years ago. Last year I did a root pruning around the tree, but left it in the ground. When I dug it today, I had a lot of fine roots near the base, so I was more aggressive than usual. That said, I realize that I took a risk and may fail. As far as teachers go, my current bonsai teachers might thrash me mercilessly if they knew what I did! Way back, I helped pay my way through college digging b&b material at a wholesale, retail nursery back east. My employers were very bottom line oriented. If I messed up a root ball while digging, they certainly let me know about it. I guess I got some practice at this. I do appreciate everyone's diligence though.
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