Landscape Japanese Maple

[RichKid]

I answered an add on my local Craigslist about someone wanting to remove/sell a 'Chinese maple' in their yard. I assume they meant Japanese maple. Apparently it has been in their landscape for years and is a tree of adult proportions, perhaps 20 ft tall. Would it be possible to collect such a tree by trunk chopping it on site and digging it up? Would a tree that old back bud reliably? How much rootball would I need, tools for the job etx etc. Theyre asking $50 there are two available, but i only plan on taking one. I know you more seasoned guys (and gals) know all the questions I have racing in my mind. I just want to know first is it even worth attempting, and how exactly could I pull it off successfully. I'm making an appointment to go see them in person this week. So I would want to feel up to the task beforehand. Thanks!

 

[berobinson82]

Have you seen it yet? Beware of a graft where you'd rather a tree!

 

[fourteener]

I can't speak to maples specifically, but I can speak to your task as I have a relationship with a landscapers who is always referring me to jobs like this. There are several no thank yous'. One: do I even like how it looks. Two: and this is a big one, is it intertwined with a lot of other mature landscaping? It would really have to be worth the bother. Third: if they want it out now, there's less chance it will survive... how about free? and you won't have to pay the landscapers for the work, I'm saving you money!!

If it is part of a landscape job, will the landscapers dig it for you with their nifty machines. If it is a really cool trunk it might be worth the expense. "Buy a trunk, grow a top."

Good luck. I hope it's cool and I hope it will work.

 

[RichKid]

I can't speak to maples specifically, but I can speak to your task as I have a relationship with a landscapers who is always referring me to jobs like this. There are several no thank yous'. One: do I even like how it looks. Two: and this is a big one, is it intertwined with a lot of other mature landscaping? It would really have to be worth the bother. Third: if they want it out now, there's less chance it will survive... how about free? and you won't have to pay the landscapers for the work, I'm saving you money!!

If it is part of a landscape job, will the landscapers dig it for you with their nifty machines. If it is a really cool trunk it might be worth the expense. "Buy a trunk, grow a top."

Good luck. I hope it's cool and I hope it will work.

Thanks for the advice. Im not sure if its a landscape job or not. However I doubt it. They posted it in the middle of the winter. I responded but told them to contact me in the spring because you cant transplant trees during winter. So I just received an email yesterday asking if I was still interested. I responded with trying to set up an appointment to see it as I have no idea what they look like. I think they were really interested in selling not giving lol. Which was another question, would it ever be worth $50. Its not a lot of money so I'm not really stressing that aspect. Just more concerned if it could even be done successfully.

 

[RichKid]

Have you seen it yet? Beware of a graft where you'd rather a tree!

I hadn't even thought of that aspect. When they said landscape and told me it was between 15-20 ft tall I instantly assumed it was regular palmatum, which normally isn't grafted. I will look closely. Thanks.

 

[Dav4]

I hadn't even thought of that aspect. When they said landscape and told me it was between 15-20 ft tall I instantly assumed it was regular palmatum, which normally isn't grafted. I will look closely. Thanks.

You're going to have to see it and assess any potential it has...a 15'-20' palmatum may have a trunk a foot or more in diameter...too big for my tastes and would likely have an unusable nebari. An 8' to 10' tall tree would be a different story. Good luck.

 

[davetree]

Go look at the trunk and roots to make sure it is worth your while. It could be done in spring as the buds swell and with proper after care. Really big ones are hard to heal and are a lot of heavy work.

 

[rockm]

The warning on the graft is well taken. Many landscape JMs have extremely bad grafts that "neck up" from a large trunk to a smaller scion that may be inches smaller, making for a wierd trunk. This cary vary tremendously from tree to tree, though.

Height is of no worth assessing a tree for bonsai potential. Twenty feet is not all that big. What matters is the first three feet of the trunk from the ground. If there is a bit of taper in that space and, better yet, movement, it could be worthwhile.

 

[RichKid]

The warning on the graft is well taken. Many landscape JMs have extremely bad grafts that "neck up" from a large trunk to a smaller scion that may be inches smaller, making for a wierd trunk. This cary vary tremendously from tree to tree, though.

Height is of no worth assessing a tree for bonsai potential. Twenty feet is not all that big. What matters is the first three feet of the trunk from the ground. If there is a bit of taper in that space and, better yet, movement, it could be worthwhile.

Ok. I would definitely walk away from any grafts. I was more worried about not killing it. I wasn't concerned with the height myself because I knew it would have to be chopped anyway. But as both Daves mentioned above, is there a certain girth that should be concerning? And what about back budding. Im almost certain any landscape tree will have no branches left to keep. How far back should it be chopped. Could it be chopped and then chopped again? Like leaving the first branch or so to keep some chlorophyll and let it back bud under and then chop again later. Im sure that would set back development some years but I've never undertaken anything like this. My big question is, if the tree is worthwhile in my inexperienced opinion, , how would I undertake the operation.

 

[fourteener]

You have to be mindful on a chop back, that it also might die back farther than you want it to. I'd chop it off at around 4 ft. If they are really concerned about their tree it really would be a nice 2-3 year project.

As far as the process, there is a lot to tell you. It be nice to know if your actually going to do it before spelling it all out. Go take some pictures and post them. If it is a good tree, $50 is nothing. As was stated before if the trunk is a foot thick with no taper, I personally would let it go. Especially if the graft was bad. Imagine the tap root your going to find and how hard it's going to be to cut. That's going to be the ordeal.

I always go and look though. You never know when you might find something awesome.

 

[davetree]

It won't die if you dig at the right time and it will throw plenty of buds. Protecting it after digging is important. Of course make sure it has potential. I dug a POS maple in my early years that weighed about 500 lbs with the heavy clay rootball. A lot of work for firewood.

Take a pic and post it here. Members will tell you if it's worth your time.

 

[rockm]

Definitely take a pic. JMs can take a decent root reduction and trunk chop and survive...

 

[RichKid]

Well I just heard back from the guy. He actually has a lot of these trees he said. They want to get rid of some of the shade in their yard. The trees are about ten years old, and he says they range from 14 feet up. I should be going there this week to take a look and I will definitely take pics. Thanks guys for the advice.

 

[RichKid]

Well it was a rainy day here today and I went to meet the seller. Unfortunately in the rain I was rushing and taking my pictures and now that I look at them Im not sure how helpful they will be. I'll post them anyway.

 

[RichKid]

 

[RichKid]

The second pic is the base of the tree in the third pic, its the one I'm considering. The fourth and fifth pic are of the same tree. He also had some larger than these but I figured they would be too much trouble. They guy had over a dozen of these at this size. After I told him what I wanted them for he told me his father had been into bonsai before he passed. He said he had to sell over 150 nice trees his father had trained for years. He showed a bunch of saplings he had growing along his fence and behind some hedges. None of the trees are grafted, they are all grown from seeds from the 100 year old HUGE japanese maple that dominates the back yard. He actually had a decent sized trunk that had been chopped and already had shoots coming out of it. That and all the saplings he said I can have for free!

 

[rockm]

All are probably worth collecting, however, you need to dig beneath the leaves to see the actual point where the tree meets the soil. A bad graft could be hiding under the leaves.

If not, I'd get ALL of them, NOW. You can probably get them without a huge effort. You don't have to get all that much roots mass (although the more the better).

If this were my opportunity, I'd push a shovel eight inches down and a foot and a half out from the trunk all the way around the tree. Undercut at six inches (or less deep) and push the tree over. Trunk chop it at about three feet. I'd also wash all the old soil off with a hose to make the rootmass lighter. Be careful not to knock of finer feeder roots in the mass as you clean. This cleanse will hopefully reveal a few feeder roots (if not, don't worry too much)then throw it in the truck and take it home.

Once at home, you should have a pretty large grow container (about 2' x 2' x 6-9")already prepared (half full of regular bonsai soil) Trim the major roots to fit into the container with an inch or so to spare on the sides and bottom. backfill with regular bonsai soil, making sure voids between roots are filled. Place in a site with afternoon shade, make sure the bottom of the pot can drain. Water thoroughly until water runs from the bottom. Let it be. You should get new shoots within a few weeks...

Good luck.

 

[Poink88]

Trunk chop it at about three feet.

You really need 3 feet?

I trunk chop before digging. Makes it easier to move around the tree and less unnecessary root ball disturbance after digging. Just another style for you to consider.

 

[RichKid]

All are probably worth collecting, however, you need to dig beneath the leaves to see the actual point where the tree meets the soil. A bad graft could be hiding under the leaves.

If not, I'd get ALL of them, NOW. You can probably get them without a huge effort. You don't have to get all that much roots mass (although the more the better).

If this were my opportunity, I'd push a shovel eight inches down and a foot and a half out from the trunk all the way around the tree. Undercut at six inches (or less deep) and push the tree over. Trunk chop it at about three feet. I'd also wash all the old soil off with a hose to make the rootmass lighter. Be careful not to knock of finer feeder roots in the mass as you clean. This cleanse will hopefully reveal a few feeder roots (if not, don't worry too much)then throw it in the truck and take it home.

Once at home, you should have a pretty large grow container (about 2' x 2' x 6-9")already prepared (half full of regular bonsai soil) Trim the major roots to fit into the container with an inch or so to spare on the sides and bottom. backfill with regular bonsai soil, making sure voids between roots are filled. Place in a site with afternoon shade, make sure the bottom of the pot can drain. Water thoroughly until water runs from the bottom. Let it be. You should get new shoots within a few weeks...

Good luck.

I told the guy I'd be back next week. I live about a half an hour away and with the operation of collecting, I'm not sure how long they would all be out of the ground. I would love to take ALL of them, but he has at least 12 of them! LOL I think I'm going to take one of the smaller ones, maybe a middle size one, none of the large ones, and all the saplings plus the trunk thats already been chopped. As far as the operation, a foot and half is all I would need? Eight inches deep? I guess I will have to build some extra grow boxes. I do have tons of turface and granite, but not enough bark to make that much soil. Do you think it would be alright if I put them in regular potting soil and maybe mix some aggregate in just for this season and try to get them repotted next year into better stuff? Its just been really hard finding organic components for the mix. I thought turface and granite would be hard to come by, turns out it was the exact opposite. I do have large dish washing tubs though, would they suffice for grow boxes? I haven't measured them, but I would say they are about 18"x16" and about 6-8" deep.

 

[RichKid]

You really need 3 feet?

I trunk chop before digging. Makes it easier to move around the tree and less unnecessary root ball disturbance after digging. Just another style for you to consider.

I think he says to chop at three feet because there may be some die back, but I'm not sure.