Kishu or Shimpaku?

[Tidal Bonsai]

I got these unidentified Juniper whips from a club member. He thought they were Kishu, but they look like regular Shimpaku to me. Any ideas?

I twisted them both up, and am going to ground-grow once the weather cools down.

 

[RichS]

Not kishu

 

[LanceMac10]

https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2017/09/09/kishu-or-shimpaku/

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

Yes, just what I thought. It definately looks like Shimpaku.

 

[RichS]

Yea it seems to me that kishu can usually be identified by its color and tight foliage. Shimp and Ito on the other has always been a little harder. Especially here in florida

 

[choppychoppy]

Actually - shimpaku refers to any type of juniperus chineses in Japan. The regional names/varieties refer to trees grown or traditionally collected in those sections of Japan. Itoigawa found in the Niigata prefecture and Kishu from the Wakayama prefecture. The main issue with identification is that these trees developed their slight differences due to climate and terrain from these areas in Japan so as these are grown longer and longer in different environments, they will slowly and subtly alter.

 

[milehigh_7]

https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2017/09/09/kishu-or-shimpaku/

^^^ Best write up I have ever seen on the topic.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

Actually - shimpaku refers to any type of juniperus chineses in Japan. The regional names/varieties refer to trees grown or traditionally collected in those sections of Japan. Itoigawa found in the Niigata prefecture and Kishu from the Wakayama prefecture. The main issue with identification is that these trees developed their slight differences due to climate and terrain from these areas in Japan so as these are grown longer and longer in different environments, they will slowly and subtly alter.

This is 100% correct, Shimpaku is the overarching descriptor, however in American bonsai circles Shimpaku has come to mean a different general species of Japanese Juniper. The sports of Kishu/Itowigawa are more desireable, as I am sure you already know. Just check Evergreen Gardenworks and other sites.

https://www.evergreengardenworks.com/juniperu.htm

It's just like calling Champagne sparkling wine, bourbon whiskey, or a San Marzano a tomato.

 

[milehigh_7]

Shimps are Juniperus chinensis var. sargentii but not all sargentii are shimps. Shimpaku is a common name of a variety which has several varieties below it.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Shimpaku is a made-up compound word or phrase in Japanese. Apparently, Shin is “authentic” and paku is “oak”, meaning the “genuine article”. This is how the junipers were described by early collectors when they were discovered growing on the cliffs...the real deal. So it’s a made-up term, and Clyde is right on this, botanically, they’re all Juniperus chinensis. Although I have no idea if any of the Kishu, Itoigawa, Kiyozuru, Tohoko etc. regional variants have been identified as separate cultivars.

I found an article about the discovery of Shimpakus 15 years ago in the WBFF website and actually printed it. A few years ago I went looking for it and the authors, but the site was defunct and the article was gone, I was able to recreate the article using the Wayback Machine for photos and my printed copy for text. It is now on my blog site, and is a great read, and explains the term Shimpaku, as well as Itoigawa and Kishu. Check it out:

https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/the-shimpaku-juniper-its-secret-history-from-kindai-shuppan-2003/

BTW, to the OP, my bet would be on “not Kishu” as well.

 

[mrcasey]

I wouldn't be too quick to identify those junipers. I've noticed that when I take Kishu cuttings, they look almost exactly
like regular shimpaku for a few years. It's not until they get larger that the growth habit, profile, and lack of "ropiness"
make the Kishu cuttings more clearly identifiable.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

I just got a bump on this thread. One of the cuttings died after I put bends in, but the other is shaping up to be a cool mame. Yes, I know it’s just a stick in a pot, but I like it! I have enough larger trees, I can have some fun once in awhile, can’t I?!?!