Kishu Beginnings

[cybergandalf]

I know this is probably the most common post on here, but I've been looking at this Kishu for a few weeks and I'm not quite sure where to go. Pretty sure I "cleaned" too much out of the middle. I know I need to wire the whips, but there are too many "main branches". I also know some have to go, but I'm terrified I'm going to do the wrong thing my first time out. I tried covering some so I could see the design without them, but not really sure what the best design would look like. Here is a plethora of pictures, where do you guys think I should start?

 

[pandacular]

there are too many "main branches"

I think you more or less nailed the main issue here. Those three primary branches from the same location are going to cause issues long term and one of them has to go.

From a structure perspective, the middle one looks like it sets you up better for the future, but it's also way bigger and better than the left branch.

I'm also a beginner, so it's hard for me to say if removing the middle branch would be safe for the tree, but I think the littlest one can come off without harm if you treat it right. Then, you'd just need to get some space between the two primary branches--easily done enough with some wire and/or a prop.

 

[cybergandalf]

From a structure perspective, the middle one looks like it sets you up better for the future, but it's also way bigger and better than the left branch.

When you say the middle one sets me up better, do you mean removing it sets me up for a better tree? Or keeping it sets me up better?

But you bring me to where I was tonight, thinking to air-layer the middle or left-most branch. Just not sure which.

 

[trigo]

In my opinion, this is the future of your tree:



I would Jin the 2 branches out of the circle, but Jin’s in a tree with such dramatic movement should also have curves, you can wire them, bend them down and make some crazy curves, let them settle and Jin them in the future. Of course you are gonna have to wire the right branch too and style it.


That is just my opinion though.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I agree the right branch is the best option, because of the movement it offers compared to the others.

When you say 'cleaned out the middle' do you mean removing smaller branches? in future you may want to keep these as they are your chance to bring foliage closer to the trunk. Do you have a before pic?

Its hard to give advice from pictures because we can't see the 3d tree, I would strongly recommend you join a local bonsai club and/or attend a workshop with this tree,

this tree is better than any material I have found in the UK so far, its worth the extra effort to get right IMO

 

[AshleyMammal]

In my opinion, this is the future of your tree:

View attachment 496229

I would Jin the 2 branches out of the circle, but Jin’s in a tree with such dramatic movement should also have curves, you can wire them, bend them down and make some crazy curves, let them settle and Jin them in the future. Of course you are gonna have to wire the right branch too and style it.


That is just my opinion though.

I agree with all of this.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I think you should use the smaller branches for the design of the tree.
And when ever you think of cutting off some of the (larger) branches consider to try to air layer those off so you have the oppertunity to make some extra trees with it.

 

[cybergandalf]

I would Jin the 2 branches out of the circle

I like where you're going with this.

When you say 'cleaned out the middle' do you mean removing smaller branches? in future you may want to keep these as they are your chance to bring foliage closer to the trunk. Do you have a before pic?

Yes, when I was cleaning it up to see the trunk movement, I think I got carried away. However, if I decide to airlayer the left two branches and go with the right branches, I may be okay. Here's a before pic from the front.

I think you should use the smaller branches for the design of the tree.
And when ever you think of cutting off some of the (larger) branches consider to try to air layer those off so you have the oppertunity to make some extra trees with it.

I think you're right.

Thanks for the responses, this is extremely helpful. I'm going to go cover the left side and take a couple pics and see what's what.

 

[cybergandalf]

Here's what it looks like without the left branches. I think you guys have struck gold.

 

[pandacular]

Yep, there it is!

Before I was referring to removing the center branch as better structure (leaving the center and right branch makes for a bit of a crowded tree), but now I'm thinking best course would be to remove/air layer the center piece and Jin the left the branch.

 

[FreshAirSunshine]

In terms of the Jins - I think having them extend to about the first branch split for both would be a good length. I think they could be used to bring interest to the outside curve. Go longer than you think though - can always cut back later but can’t add.

 

[cybergandalf]

In terms of the Jins - I think having them extend to about the first branch split for both would be a good length. I think they could be used to bring interest to the outside curve. Go longer than you think though - can always cut back later but can’t add.

I wanted to air layer, so I was thinking about two air layers at these spots. Doesn’t leave me as much jin, but nice trees.

 

[FreshAirSunshine]

Yeah fair enough. It’s a trade off - im less into having more trees and more into doing whatever I can to make the ones I have the best design I can. Do I think it’d be nice to have those jins? Yea. Do I understand wanting more viable trees to grow instead? Yea.

 

[cybergandalf]

Yeah fair enough. It’s a trade off - im less into having more trees and more into doing whatever I can to make the ones I have the best design I can. Do I think it’d be nice to have those jins? Yea. Do I understand wanting more viable trees to grow instead? Yea.

On the subject of air layering, if I use the technique Eric from Bonsaify uses (plastic pot with propagation medium and sphagnum, instead of the sphagnum ball) would I be able to put one pot around both spots since they’re so close together?

 

[FreshAirSunshine]

On the subject of air layering, if I use the technique Eric from Bonsaify uses (plastic pot with propagation medium and sphagnum, instead of the sphagnum ball) would I be able to put one pot around both spots since they’re so close together?

I’m not sure, but I’d be concerned about having to disentangle the roots to separate them if they were layered together. That might not be a big deal though - it’s just my first thoughts (disclaimer - im a noob who hadn’t air-layered anything).

 

[pandacular]

... let me get back to you in another 3-4 months when I try to separate the 4 or so air layers this noob tried.

 

[pandacular]

btw @cybergandalf ,you should go into your profile and add your location and USDA hardiness zone. It can really help with horticultural advice you might get on here.

Also, welcome, hope to see more of this Juniper as it grows, I love kishu.

 

[cybergandalf]

you should go into your profile and add your location and USDA hardiness zone. It can really help with horticultural advice you might get on here.

Also, welcome, hope to see more of this Juniper as it grows, I love kishu.

Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder!

 

[cybergandalf]

Whelp, here we go.

 

[pandacular]

Nice! On my two separate air layer projects, I used both the tourniquet and the pot with substrate technique, but on different trees.

Here's my Azara microphylla with the pot on there. This one I stripped the bark and down to the cambium (I hope!), but I have a landscape juniper that I used a tourniquet with the sphagnum in aluminum foil technique as presented by David Cutchin on Mirai Live.