Kanorin's "Azalea 2020-2025" entry

[Deep Sea Diver]

So different strokes for different folks.

My inclination to to develop a good basic framework, then fill in from there, even if it means cutting strongly at the start of the design. There are plenty of good reasons for this point of view down the line when considering future growth, pruning style, backbudding and overall health.

Yet if the goal is to produce a tree that looks good on the outside in three more years, expediency trumps basic structure.

Philosophically we all seem to focus on the top hamper in these discussions. The tree‘s style begins with the nebari. With no nebari, your tree is destined to end up somewhat “lolly pop style” despite strong efforts atop. Thus, one thing I’d do soon, is to start carefully scratching off the media at the surface of the nebari. Look for strong roots close to the surface and pull the media back between the major roots a little. See what you come up with.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Kanorin - sorry, I've been off line a lot this last year or so, and did not follow up with a post about creating cascades. I should have posted this 12 months ago. You "should have" or "could have" gone about creating your cascade a little differently. But hindsight is 20:20.

I have a "unknown, definitely not 'Waka Ebisu' azalea. I purchased 2 from Teleperion, both were supposed to be 'Waka Ebisu', they were not that and they were not the same cultivar.

First photo is 2011. Difficult to see is this is a clump in a rectangular pot, one long branch and a few shorter branches and a central trunk that was not very dominant over the long branch. I have a YiXing pot, that is a tall cascade pot, roughly 12 inches top to bottom, it is carved with dragon chasing the pearl of immortality (common dragon motif). The pot is glazed, or maybe painted black, so it does not show up against dark backgrounds, so it is not as gaudy as the deep relief carving would lead one to think it would be.

2011


In 2012 or 2014 I moved the azalea to the cascade pot I planted the trunk at a slight angle to accentuate the descending branch. I wired the branch down as sharply as I could without cracking it. My mistake was not wiring the branch down sooner, so the cascade angles out from the pot more than I originally wanted it to.

Key is, you should have left your descending branch MUCH longer, and wired it to position. Also, you should have initially put your trunk at roughly a 45 degree angle off vertical, to give the cascading branch a better start on its descent to "below the rim".

As you can see from the following photos, this is a full cascade, the lowest point of the lowest branch does descend below the feet of the pot. Makes for all sorts of logistical challenges in terms of not breaking the lowest point (technically it is still the apex of the tree)

2016


2018


2020


2021 (today) 14June2021


So this is an alternate way to make a cascade, start with a long branch, wire it down, and work from there.
The long branch is treated as a trunk of the bonsai, except the front of the trunk faces the pot. So branches are supposed to be left, right, back, left right back. Or the reverse, right, left, back, just as in an upright bonsai, except the front of the cascade faces the pot, so the back branches come at the viewer.

Mine is not a particularly good example, but it is the cascade I know well.

Sorry, not trying to hijack your thread. But since a great deal of this thread is culture and style info from others, I thought I would chime in.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The foliage above the rim of the pot gets pruned at least twice, sometimes 3 times a summer. Otherwise it will out-compete the lower foliage.

The branches and twigs below the rim of the pot only get arranged and pruned once a summer, right about now. Sometimes I won't prune the lowest branches or the apex for 2 or 3 years, simply because they do not grow as vigorously as the upper foliage above the rim of the pot. This is balancing energy. Even though azalea in general are not strongly apically dominant, once you force a branch below the rim of the pot, vigor decreases the low you get on the descending branch.

I did use copper wire for the wiring. It has better holding power. I found aluminum wire would be all "rearranged" by the end of summer. Copper at least stays in place

Because of time I had to put in at the blueberry farm, 2017 thru 2020 not much work has been done. Since I've sold the farm and retired again, I hope to put more time into this and the rest of my azaleas 2021 and going forward.

 

[Kanorin]

Thanks for dropping in, @Leo in N E Illinois . You are always welcome!

I've decided to pursue a semi-cascade for this one. I suspect some of your cascade advice still applies - just maybe a little less intensely. I wanted to plant it at a little bit more of an angle than I was able because I had already reduced the roots quite severely and I was afraid to go further. I probably should have put it in a larger pot in order to do it, but at this point in my bonsai journey I have so few plants in actual bonsai pots that I was chomping at the bit! My aim is to repot in a year or two at a little bit more of an angle and a little bit more to the left in that yixing semi-cascade pot that it's in now.

@Pitoon That general triangle shape that you outlined is what I had in mind too. In future years the plan is to keep the top pretty tight close to where it's at now and let the left semi-cascading piece elongate a lot more. Long way to go with this one!

 

[Kanorin]

This azalea seems to be crushing it this year despite the significant early spring root reduction and late spring top reduction.

 

[Carol 83]

This azalea seems to be crushing it this year despite the significant early spring root reduction and late spring top reduction.
View attachment 393855

Perhaps "adorable" is a little too precious to describe it, but it is.

 

[Pitoon]

This azalea seems to be crushing it this year despite the significant early spring root reduction and late spring top reduction.
View attachment 393855

That little one would look really good in a smaller unglazed pot.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

That little one would look really good in a smaller unglazed pot.

Maybe so, but I definitely wouldn’t recommend it now. Let this little guy grow and grow (and style ) until just before the actual contest ends….

….hopefully that end will be at an appropriate time to allow everyone to repot in a show pot. I forget. What say you @Pitoon?

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Pitoon]

Maybe so, but I definitely wouldn’t recommend it now. Let this little guy grow and grow (and style ) until just before the actual contest ends….

….hopefully that end will be at an appropriate time to allow everyone to repot in a show pot. I forget. What say you @Pitoon?

Cheers
DSD sends

Totally agree. He will have to time it right to get it in a show pot before the contest ends. Now is the time to grow and set the branching. I have probably 2 or 3 more branches to remove and then I can start focusing building the pads on each branch.

Mine will remain in it's training pot till 2024. Then I will repot it into the show pot....it's patiently sitting on my shelf.

I have a lot of flower buds on mine at the moment. So we will see flowers next spring.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Totally agree. He will have to time it right to get it in a show pot before the contest ends. Now is the time to grow and set the branching. I have probably 2 or 3 more branches to remove and then I can start focusing building the pads on each branch.

Mine will remain in it's training pot till 2024. Then I will repot it into the show pot....it's patiently sitting on my shelf.

I have a lot of flower buds on mine at the moment. So we will see flowers next spring.

Thanks!

“The end” gets a bitmore complicated though but I’m sure you thought of that already…..there’s also the blooming time variations to consider…. Folks have a plethora of azalea types so the blooming events could be spread out over 2-4 months.

btw: Personally I’m going for the Best Satsuki Attacked by a Rabbit Award!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Kanorin]

The young apex died back over winter (rabbit damage? cold damage?), but I it can be replaced.
Before repot


Reduced roots by another 40-50%
New, smaller pot

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sorry to see your apex took a hit. Some of my Satsuki took a similar hit. It was from a fungus that hit during a winter freeze thaw with high humidity. I ended up drying them out and hitting them with a strong dose of H2O2 which put a stop to it… but at a cost of the removal of some branches and all the leaves in the area.

Hopefully your spring season’s growth will rebound!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Kanorin]

Definitely on the weak side this year, I hope it pulls through. As I was working on it, found out there have been lacewings munching on it. Sprayed with Sevin after this light styling/simplification session.
Before


after:

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Definitely Lace bugs! So sorry to see that. They like azaleas, especially if they are in Sunny areas or weak. I use Imidicloprid granules when things start looking like they are going south for Lace bugs.

Anyways, just a thought. I was looking back at your photos. I think downsizing the pot wasn’t the best for your plants health. Stylistically better perhaps, yet azaleas like a good amount of legroom and begin to suffer if they don’t get it. Reducing the root ball and down potting likely weakened the plant. Normally they are planted in successively deeper and wider pots. That’s exactly opposite of many other trees. It might be wise to up pot this tree for its health.

Good luck
DSD sends

 

[Kanorin]

Definitely Lace bugs! So sorry to see that. They like azaleas, especially if they are in Sunny areas or weak. I use Imidicloprid granules when things start looking like they are going south for Lace bugs.

Anyways, just a thought. I was looking back at your photos. I think downsizing the pot wasn’t the best for your plants health. Stylistically better perhaps, yet azaleas like a good amount of legroom and begin to suffer if they don’t get it. Reducing the root ball and down potting likely weakened the plant. Normally they are planted in successively deeper and wider pots. That’s exactly opposite of many other trees. It might be wise to up pot this tree for its health.

Good luck
DSD sends

Yeah you are probably right, I was thinking similar. Would you slip pot it now? Or wait until spring?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I’d do it now. Pot the next size up, Usually I tend to put problem azaleas in Tokoname grow pots or similar.

For example https://www.bonsaioutlet.com/pots/unglazed-bonsai-pots/japanese-tokoname-training-grow-pot/

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Pitoon]

That branch dying off would lead me to believe that there's an issue with the roots. A healthy branch does not just die off for no reason. The rest of the tree looked healthy in the first pic of post #111. The pic in post #113 the tree looks severely stressed. Reducing the roots to fit it into a smaller pot as well as removing 50% of the existing foliage on an already stressed tree is severely stressing to the tree.

I concur with @Deep Sea Diver to up pot now into a decent size container. Give it time to recover and let it fully grow out as it pleases. This tree needs to regain it's vigor, before you can proceed to training it.

 

[Kanorin]

Repotted in something a little larger. @Pitoon was right, roots didn’t look great. I’ll keep it in full shade for a few weeks to see if it can recover some strength

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

You might consider adding 2TBSP/QT 3% H2O2 to the water each time you water if you noticed the roots are ailing. It can only help. It has saved quite a number of my azaleas in my first two years.

This thread shows a legacy azalea of ours that was seriously a goner come back to life after using it and tossing it in the ground.

Good Luck!
DSD sends

 

[Kanorin]

This guy didn't make it
It was already super weak and there was a big heat wave in late July while I was out of town and had a neighbor watering for me. Probably would have succumbed even if I was home.

TLDR: I got greedy and went too hard on the roots two years in a row and then did additional pruning this spring while it was weak. It probably would have been ok if I had done one, but not both of those insults this spring. RIP

BUT, I've learned a lot about pruning, repotting, and shaping azaleas! Thanks @Pitoon for organizing this contest!
Last year I bought a couple more small ones and 3 of them are still alive...but I don't think I want to jinx any of them by entering them in this contest