Junipers...procumbens that aren't very flexible

[Cadillactaste]

So they had $30 juniper bonsai at Lowes tonight. Though much larger than my own I had gotten last year. I didn't find them to be very flexible. More stiff like my own variety. Why is that? I left one at Walmart a few months ago...that was easily flexible. (But not as long as it needed to be to create something like the photo attached.)

That said...would I find more flexible material at a nursery? Curious what makes some so inflexible and others more flexible. They both looked like procumbens...but maybe not. Neither were tagged further than saying bonsai.

 

[fourteener]

I've seen this sweet little tree as well. It is inspirational. My guess is that you have to find the right trunk line for the first half and then the second half had the flexibility to create the rest.

It could also be grown out over a couple of years to get the flexible extension.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

First...how do you define flexible? It's all relative. It is possible to put a hairpin bend in a 2" thick branch that is 15" long, and it is possible to snap a penci-sized branch at 45 degrees.

Second...significant bends can be achieved when you wrap the branch with raffia, and use guy-wires, gradually tightening the wire over several weeks.

Third...my opinion of procumbens is that they're frustrating and disappointing bonsai material. The foliage is prickly, they split easily at the crotches, bud back where you don't want them, shed branches, and produce reverse taper below almost every main branch.

Try a shimpaku once, and it's likely you'll never try working with a procumbens again. For the same $30, Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks will send you a 3/4" trunk, grown to be bonsai.

 

[Poink88]

What Brian said.

You can bend bigger branches...if you know how. Part that he said that is very important is that the bend may be done partly over time...some may take years.

 

[jk_lewis]

And . . . that little tree was likely shaped like that while it was still just a matchstick thin seedling. It wasn't bent like that when it already was that size, but was done 4-6 years ago -- or more.

 

[Cadillactaste]

And . . . that little tree was likely shaped like that while it was still just a matchstick thin seedling. It wasn't bent like that when it already was that size, but was done 4-6 years ago -- or more.

Thanks...I was curious about that.

 

[Vance Wood]

First...how do you define flexible? It's all relative. It is possible to put a hairpin bend in a 2" thick branch that is 15" long, and it is possible to snap a penci-sized branch at 45 degrees.

Second...significant bends can be achieved when you wrap the branch with raffia, and use guy-wires, gradually tightening the wire over several weeks.

Third...my opinion of procumbens is that they're frustrating and disappointing bonsai material. The foliage is prickly, they split easily at the crotches, bud back where you don't want them, shed branches, and produce reverse taper below almost every main branch.

Try a shimpaku once, and it's likely you'll never try working with a procumbens again. For the same $30, Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks will send you a 3/4" trunk, grown to be bonsai.

What he said. Procumbens Juniper are very frustrating, not only do they do (or don't do) as Brian has pointed out, I have found that they can just one day die for no apparent reason. I have also found that if they are not repotted every three years you are going (I am going) to have big problems with them. It seems, in my experience, that you do not have the luxury of delaying a repot, the same way you can on some trees, for a couple of years.

I also agree with Brian: $30.00 is a reasonable price to pay for a quality Shimpaku and Brent grows some really good material.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Thanks Vance...if I spoke to this Brent...could he hook me up with something...a flexible seedling to accomplish this look? I would hate to get something I can't accomplish my final goal. Where a local nursery I could see first hand how flexible a specific tree was.

Alright...I know I wish for small tight needles. I guess that is why I thought Procumben...also because the photo I assumed was also one. I need to research more...you guys have persuaded me to not go with a procumben.

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks Vance...if I spoke to this Brent...could he hook me up with something...a flexible seedling to accomplish this look? I would hate to get something I can't accomplish my final goal. Where a local nursery I could see first hand how flexible a specific tree was.

Alright...I know I wish for small tight needles. I guess that is why I thought Procumben...also because the photo I assumed was also one. I need to research more...you guys have persuaded me to not go with a procumben.

Maybe; but I suggest that you get a larger tree you can work on for some other form of bonsai and the growth you cut off, to make this bonsai, can be rooted as cuttings. Shimpaku root very easily with a little root hormone and a rooted cutting is probably a better way to acquire the perfect material for this little bonsai you have in mind.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Email Brent and ask for a 1-gal shimpaku that you can wire for a twisted trunk. He may have one slightly taller and thinner to accommodate the request. And, yes, cuttings from shimps root very easily, I don't bother with rooting hormone and get 70% success. In fact, if Brent doesn't have one, let me know...I may.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Thanks Brian...I was telling my husband about needing to contact Brent. He asked me to hold off until we arrive back from our mission trip in June. One less tree to have someone care for. (We'll be gone close to two weeks) so when we get back in June...around the 17th if I'm not mistaken. I will make contact.

 

[fourteener]

The only procumbens I ever work on are the ones I get for free. I did put them in my heated cold frame this winter and they are much happier, but space in my cold frame is a prized commodity!! I don't think they really tolerate the cold up here very well.

If I have to put them in my cold frame, I might as well put a shimpaku in there right!!

 

[Cadillactaste]

The only procumbens I ever work on are the ones I get for free. I did put them in my heated cold frame this winter and they are much happier, but space in my cold frame is a prized commodity!! I don't think they really tolerate the cold up here very well.

If I have to put them in my cold frame, I might as well put a shimpaku in there right!!

I put mine in an enclosed gazebo. (Un heated) just because I was worried over something potted out in the elements. Glad I did...many trees around here are suffering from wind burn from the arctic air and wind we had. It was easy to care for it in there...so I imagine I will continue to do that to all outdoor trees that need a dormant period.

 

[october]

What he said. Procumbens Juniper are very frustrating, not only do they do (or don't do) as Brian has pointed out, I have found that they can just one day die for no apparent reason. I have also found that if they are not repotted every three years you are going (I am going) to have big problems with them. It seems, in my experience, that you do not have the luxury of delaying a repot, the same way you can on some trees, for a couple of years.

I also agree with Brian: $30.00 is a reasonable price to pay for a quality Shimpaku and Brent grows some really good material.

I am inclined to agree with this. Especially the dying for no reason. However, in my experience, it in not the whole tree that dies. You usually lose a main branch, like the first anchoring branch. This can also be true for junipers in general. Another thing is their refusal to make weak branches strong again. Seems like when a branch is weaker than the rest, it will always be weaker than the rest.

Rob

 

[nathanbs]

I'm curious what the waiting during bending accomplishes? Why would you want the tissue to begin to heal just so you can tear it again? I have never seen or been told by a professional bonsai artist to bend this way. Its bent on the spot, perhaps over the course of an hour or 2 at most if its a crazy bend. I personally think this is an incorrect way to do bending. Prepare the bend properly and bend it. Waiting does nothing in my opinion.

 

[jkd2572]

I have a 75 to 100 year old 5.5 feet tall procumbens. I sure hope it does not die suddenly..... If it does I will blame it on this thread.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I'm curious what the waiting during bending accomplishes? Why would you want the tissue to begin to heal just so you can tear it again? I have never seen or been told by a professional bonsai artist to bend this way. Its bent on the spot, perhaps over the course of an hour or 2 at most if its a crazy bend. I personally think this is an incorrect way to do bending. Prepare the bend properly and bend it. Waiting does nothing in my opinion.

I bent the one shown in one go, which is preferable...but if I can't get it where I want it right away, I know I can get a little more play after it relaxes a few days/weeks later. Guy wires make it easy to go back for a little more.

 

[Paradox]

I did put them in my heated cold frame this winter and they are much happier, but space in my cold frame is a prized commodity!! I don't think they really tolerate the cold up here very well.

I've found that mine do better in the unheated garage than they do outside.

So far I like procumbens and Ive seen some really beautiful ones.
So far Im not all that crazy about Shimpaku to be honest. Most that I have seen are tiny little whips and so-so trees for exorbitant prices, just because its a "shimpaku". Id hate to see what a "nice" one goes for. In any case, Im sure its more than I want to spend for one.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I've found that mine do better in the unheated garage than they do outside.

So far I like procumbens and Ive seen some really beautiful ones.
So far Im not all that crazy about Shimpaku to be honest. Most that I have seen are tiny little whips and so-so trees for exorbitant prices, just because its a "shimpaku". Id hate to see what a "nice" one goes for. In any case, Im sure its more than I want to spend for one.

My first bonsai was a procumbens, I also collected a few eastern red cedars. Needless to say, I hated junipers for my first 5-6 years doing bonsai.

I met Gary Wood and remember walking through his nursery in 2000. He said, "you into shimpakus yet?" I thought it was an interesting question, as though it was inevitable, and my experience with junipers had been bad up to that point. Funny what sticks with you over time.

Fast forward 8-10 more years...turns out it was inevitable, I got into shimpakus. Now the east side of my bonsai garden has a berm with stands of only shimpakus...along with many cuttings growing in the berm beneath.

 

[jk_lewis]

Come on, guys. Procumbens aren't all bad.

NC Arboretum: