Junipers...procumbens that aren't very flexible

So far Im not all that crazy about Shimpaku to be honest. Most that I have seen are tiny little whips and so-so trees for exorbitant prices.


If you can, check out a kokufu book. The shimpakus in there are incredible.
 
I'm curious what the waiting during bending accomplishes? Why would you want the tissue to begin to heal just so you can tear it again? I have never seen or been told by a professional bonsai artist to bend this way. Its bent on the spot, perhaps over the course of an hour or 2 at most if its a crazy bend. I personally think this is an incorrect way to do bending. Prepare the bend properly and bend it. Waiting does nothing in my opinion.

It may not be the case with juniper or pine (softwood) but most broad leaf (hardwood) are not as flexible. I have a friend who basically taught me bending boxwood and he had one like the pictured in the OP but made out of boxwood. It was done over a few years...otherwise, it would have ended dead/kindling.

Sometimes, you have no choice but to let it adjust, heal, recover...then break again (rinse and repeat). Waiting (sometimes) does something and is the correct (maybe only) way. ;)
 
It may not be the case with juniper or pine (softwood) but most broad leaf (hardwood) are not as flexible. I have a friend who basically taught me bending boxwood and he had one like the pictured in the OP but made out of boxwood. It was done over a few years...otherwise, it would have ended dead/kindling.

Sometimes, you have no choice but to let it adjust, heal, recover...then break again (rinse and repeat). Waiting (sometimes) does something and is the correct (maybe only) way. ;)

There is a local artist here in so cal Marcus juniel that will bend boxwood identically to the techniques used on junipers, pines etc. raffia, wire, etc. you'll notice that he or anyone else that does these bends will kind of warm the tree up for the extreme bend by starting to flex the branch that is already wrapped with raffia. He'll carefully start to bend it, let go, give it a break, try again, he is feeling for the resistance and knows when not to push it. Often times he will move on to wiring other branches or something and come back and try bending some more. It all takes place over 30-60 minutes approx.
until I see scientific data or a bonsai artist that I respect show me different, it still makes zero sense to me to let the tree heal to then rebreak it.
I think we are thinking of human orthodontics or bone bending. But that is completely different for many reasons including the pain factor
 
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Bent some bones before. Didn't hurt a bit. They weren't mine!
 
Come on, guys. Procumbens aren't all bad.

NC Arboretum:

Sorry, but that tree isn't helping the case for procumbens...
This one, maybe, but I'd still rather work on shimpaku.
 

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Looking at his site...I have to ask. Why not use:

Juniperus chinensis 'Foemina' (Needle Juniper) S\M\-20ø?\B A traditional bonsai plant with very prickly gray blue foliage. These plants have been staked to form upright trunks. John Naka used 'Foemina' to create his masterpiece "Goshin". Please note: We formerly listed this plant incorrectly as Juniperus sabina 'Foemina'. This is the same plant we sold before, but this is the correct name.

With needing to be staked...would that not make it easier to conform to what I am desiring? Just tossing that out there.
 
The beauty with bonsai is that you can (sometimes) get the best part of a tree and marry it with another good trait from another.

If I find a good trunk procumbens, I'd buy it and graft shimpaku foliage on it. win-win

I am doing that now on an ex-topiary Torulosa/Hollywood juniper. :cool:
 
There is a local artist here in so cal Marcus juniel that will bend boxwood identically to the techniques used on junipers, pines etc. raffia, wire, etc. you'll notice that he or anyone else that does these bends will kind of warm the tree up for the extreme bend by starting to flex the branch that is already wrapped with raffia. He'll carefully start to bend it, let go, give it a break, try again, he is feeling for the resistance and knows when not to push it. Often times he will move on to wiring other branches or something and come back and try bending some more. It all takes place over 30-60 minutes approx.
until I see scientific data or a bonsai artist that I respect show me different, it still makes zero sense to me to let the tree heal to then rebreak it.
I think we are thinking of human orthodontics or bone bending. But that is completely different for many reasons including the pain factor
Sorry I cannot give any scientific data. Just what I saw and experienced and I've bent boxwood most said I can't.

I do the same (flexing) when bending boxwood but I do not believe a 3/8" (or bigger) can be bent 180 degrees in one go even with raffia. I can also make a wire coil with much smaller branches...no problem. So it highly depends on the size too.

I also find that you can have a 3/8" younger branch that is much more flexible than a much older 3/8" branch (stunted growth).

Back to OP...for a pencil sized juniper, this should be doable in one sitting with the right know how.

FYI, I made hard turn "S" out of old 1/2" juniper (of unknown variety) w/o raffia. :D Then applied several approach grafts. A boo-boo since cutting on one resulted in a crack (or prying). :rolleyes: Still fine but it should have been perfect otherwise.
 
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Looking at his site...I have to ask. Why not use:
With needing to be staked...would that not make it easier to conform to what I am desiring? Just tossing that out there.

Foemina would work, though it is a bit on the stiff side too. The foliage is very sharp and not a lot of fun. Looking at the little twisted procumbens in your OP...do you want the trunk, the foliage, or actually both? I have a strong preference for the softer foliage of shimpaku, and the flexibility it offers. If you like the needle-like foliage of procumbens, foemina is close, but larger in scale.

This is Goshin, John Naka's signature creation, made with Foemina. The foliage looks soft because it is a fairly big composition.
 

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Foemina would work, though it is a bit on the stiff side too. The foliage is very sharp and not a lot of fun. Looking at the little twisted procumbens in your OP...do you want the trunk, the foliage, or actually both? I have a strong preference for the softer foliage of shimpaku, and the flexibility it offers. If you like the needle-like foliage of procumbens, foemina is close, but larger in scale.

This is Goshin, John Naka's signature creation, made with Foemina. The foliage looks soft because it is a fairly big composition.

Just foliage at the end like in the photo. (I wish to try and mimic the photo to a certain point) I like the needles the provumben provides that is seen in this photo. Thus...I thought if the foemina needs staked to be an upright...then working with it maybe easier. (With gloves on)

Can you show me a close up of the shimaku's scale? I am trying to visualize it at the end of a twisted piece as shown in the photo.
 
Procumbens nana

Procumbens nana in completely balanced stage (8 y in training):



Almost balanced ( 7-8 y in training):


On the way ( 6-7 y in training):



Procumbens nana requires patience and a keen eye for what is going on with the tree at any time. Constant "piddeling" on the tree won't lead anywhere but to a weak and potentially dead tree.
Procumbens nana can be seen as any other slow growing tree. Same concept of outgrowth and trimming of entire shoots about twice a year.

Good air circulation, constant feeding, a lightly moist soil and spider mite control are the keys. Any extensive (styling) work on Procumbens needs to be in steps, always giving the plant time to recover while closely watching and protecting it.

Best,
Dorothy
 
WoW! Beautiful! And thank you Dorothy for pointing out how you have to take your time, plan, and protect. My Wife has killed so many of those "jumping" in that she requested I do not bring her anymore. EVERY time I told her try again AFTER you figure out what it needs she still did not listen :rolleyes:

Grimmy
 
Dorothy that was an amazing tree! Thanks for taking the time and sharing it with me. :o

Could you explain this...so I totally grasp how much one trims when you mention trimming of entire shoots. I have my trimmers that were posted for me to buy...but, I don't know where to begin. Taking to much off...or. Not enough.

Same concept of outgrowth and trimming of entire shoots about twice a year.
 
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