Juniper field Growing Techniques

[Eric Group]

Is this definitely a Shimpaku? Looks like a regular old sargent juniper to me (juniperus sargentii or something like that..). Shimpaku is a more... Refined/ delicate foliage producing type of juniper. You can use sargent's for bonsai, but they just won't create the beautiful branch tips and foliage pads that Shimpaku create. Their growth is more coarse and they are probably more suitable primarily for the larger styles.

Check this out, and tell me if it looks like your tree...
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7291/zvto.jpg

The Shimpaku is a specific variety from Japan with tight, scale foliage
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5862/mmeg.jpg

It is confusing because most places where you read about shimpaku it is identified as Sargent juniper, but there are different variations, and the regular Sargent (which is commonly found at regular nurseries around the US) doesn't have the same characteristics. Within the Shimpaku designation, there are different varieties as well- some say they are really separate trees, but they are so similar you could probably still call them Shimpaku- the Kishu and itiogawa are two I know of. The Kishu is probably the best for bonsai- real tight foliage but a slow grower I think. And Itiogawa is a little looser, grows a little faster but if "pinched" well, it looks a lot like regular Shimpaku.

Hope this helps... Like I said it is confusing, heck I probably got a few things wrong myself and I've been studying this a lot lately... So much of this info is disputed by different people, it is commonly described different ways depending on what/ where you are reading and it is such a specific designation that event he scientific names seem to vary...

I could be wrong about your variety, hard to tell from the pic as it isnt a real good close up if the branches/ foliage.

How wide is this tree at the base? Perhaps taking a picture with something beside it for scale that we are all familiar with (or just a ruler...) would give us a better feel for the size...


As far as field growing your juniper, I haven't done a lot of that, but I would have suggested you find a more sunny spot, as it looks like you are in a pretty shady area and pretty much full sun will probably give you the best results on a juniper.

Good luck!

 

[Paulpash]

These are the opportunities that are manifested each day on this forum and never have any validation. Here is a perfect example of someone giving a very good response to how a plant should or could respond to certain technique in the ground. But we will never know because this poster has failed to show us what it did, not what it could do.


Did anyone ever notice how many bonsai books have been written over the last four decades and for the most part the author either does not "do" bonsai or does not have one picture of his own work in the book. When the picture credits are shown they are from all over the world.

Show us the sacrifice cut off, show us why you retained the leader you did. How much girth was achieved in the ground and what would be a resonable rate of return per year under average conditions?

These are the things even an old sage like me would like to see. I don't grow in the ground, I just buy what I need. It would be nice to see what I could do.

I've just seen this ... I'll get pics tomorrow after work when it's light. I'll gladly share my experiences and a glaring mistake I made about 3 years ago that ties in with what Ryan Neil said about retaining foliage ... I have another tree in a growing box that is heading to where my older tree is now and my plans for it. I hope we can all learn from what I did right as well as what I did wrong.

 

[nathanbs]

What you are asking and what you have provided is akin to asking the forum how you can turn a Volkswagon into a Porsche.

thats easy! step 1: Remove VW emblem Step 2:install Porsche emblem and voila!! You have a Porsche

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

thats easy! step 1: Remove VW emblem Step 2:install Porsche emblem and voila!! You have a Porsche

Das Tanuki!

 

[Smoke]

Step 3 add fiberglass whales tail.

A bra always helps too.

 

[fore]

Here are mine, 10 plain shimpaku, which were just rooted cuttings when planted 2yrs ago. I wired and twisted them up. Two are weak...one's just plain weak, and another a bird plucked it up out of the ground last fall lol They are really just now growing, the twisting and initial planting took awhile for them to get over that shock. Not too impressive but what the heck




Hard to get it in focus so low.

 

[pmalelis]

Is this definitely a Shimpaku? Looks like a regular old sargent juniper to me (juniperus sargentii or something like that..). Shimpaku is a more... Refined/ delicate foliage producing type of juniper. You can use sargent's for bonsai, but they just won't create the beautiful branch tips and foliage pads that Shimpaku create. Their growth is more coarse and they are probably more suitable primarily for the larger styles.

Check this out, and tell me if it looks like your tree...
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7291/zvto.jpg

The Shimpaku is a specific variety from Japan with tight, scale foliage
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5862/mmeg.jpg

It is confusing because most places where you read about shimpaku it is identified as Sargent juniper, but there are different variations, and the regular Sargent (which is commonly found at regular nurseries around the US) doesn't have the same characteristics. Within the Shimpaku designation, there are different varieties as well- some say they are really separate trees, but they are so similar you could probably still call them Shimpaku- the Kishu and itiogawa are two I know of. The Kishu is probably the best for bonsai- real tight foliage but a slow grower I think. And Itiogawa is a little looser, grows a little faster but if "pinched" well, it looks a lot like regular Shimpaku.

Hope this helps... Like I said it is confusing, heck I probably got a few things wrong myself and I've been studying this a lot lately... So much of this info is disputed by different people, it is commonly described different ways depending on what/ where you are reading and it is such a specific designation that event he scientific names seem to vary...

I could be wrong about your variety, hard to tell from the pic as it isnt a real good close up if the branches/ foliage.

How wide is this tree at the base? Perhaps taking a picture with something beside it for scale that we are all familiar with (or just a ruler...) would give us a better feel for the size...


As far as field growing your juniper, I haven't done a lot of that, but I would have suggested you find a more sunny spot, as it looks like you are in a pretty shady area and pretty much full sun will probably give you the best results on a juniper.

Good luck!

This specific one is indeed Sargentii, perhaps more coarse but faster growing, I do envision a larger tree with this. In the future I do have options as to either work with its foliaage as is, which I believe doable, Or future itoigawa grafts. Either way I am just growing a "Trunk" right now as it already has much character. I have a lot of time for the tree to tell me where it shall go.

 

[Paulpash]

These are the opportunities that are manifested each day on this forum and never have any validation. Here is a perfect example of someone giving a very good response to how a plant should or could respond to certain technique in the ground. But we will never know because this poster has failed to show us what it did, not what it could do.


Did anyone ever notice how many bonsai books have been written over the last four decades and for the most part the author either does not "do" bonsai or does not have one picture of his own work in the book. When the picture credits are shown they are from all over the world.

Show us the sacrifice cut off, show us why you retained the leader you did. How much girth was achieved in the ground and what would be a resonable rate of return per year under average conditions?

These are the things even an old sage like me would like to see. I don't grow in the ground, I just buy what I need. It would be nice to see what I could do.

OK here's the pics I promised. The tree has been in development for 9 years, 6 in the ground going great guns, 3 lumbering along.
I want to preface by saying that I learnt the hard way on this tree and I did make mistakes, primarily too much foliage removal at the same time the sacrifice was removed. If I knew how sulky junipers got through too much foliage removal I would have kept at least 50% - i estimate i removed 75% by eliminating the sacrifice that was as strong as the main trunk in terms of foliage volume as well as heading back branches to get backbudding on the main trunk. The result was that the tree stalled - next season it stood still, the season after maybe 2 inch extension and this year 4-5 inches. Needless to say I won't do this on Juniper no 2 ... pics come later!

Here's the pic of the severed sacrifice at the back... around 2 and half fingers wide. I tried to dig in the soil so you could get an idea of the trunk girth but there's probably another two inches buried. It's quite awkward to get to as it's by my mini pond and I nearly fell in.

 

[Paulpash]

Slowly gaining vigour ... you can see the extensions now present on the branch tips indicating some recovery.

I had hoped the apex (first pic) would be finished now but very little growth has meant it still has a ways to go. The pruning scars will be made into shari

 

[Paulpash]

This is Juniper no 2.... learn from the mistakes of juniper no 1

You can see the two strong sacrifices at the base from the 3rd pic (the trunk I am going to use primarily) is the centre one. I wired a bit of movement into the right hand one (second hand pic) and this will be air layered last and be a larger tree - the right hand branch will become the next part of the trunk - all abobe it will be sacrificed and jinned later. I have also squish wired the sacrifice apices from where it gets pencil thick using the smoke double pliers method (first pic). They will be air layered and start their lives as a twisty yamadori style bonsai in a few years as smaller trees. By removing the layers gradually I am hoping it won't stall the vigour of the main tree.

I am going to remove foliage in stages as these layers take and keep a lot more on the centre one. I can cut these back later when it's in a pot and vigour isn't required much to build the branch structure. My aim is to build several trees (or at least the main parts such as trunk girth / movement) from one plant.

I will revisit this thread when juniper no1 is ready to come out of the ground ... it has nice movement and a fairly sizeable trunk but it's so hard to photograph due to the low branches and it's proximity to the pond.

The variety of juniper is Blauuws by the way - much bluer than Shimpaku.

 

[Paulpash]

Show us the sacrifice cut off, show us why you retained the leader you did. How much girth was achieved in the ground and what would be a resonable rate of return per year under average conditions?

These are the things even an old sage like me would like to see. I don't grow in the ground, I just buy what I need. It would be nice to see what I could do.

I've tried to answer as best I can your questions but the last one about average conditions is just plain impossible. You've been posting temps of 100 plus lately and the growing season in Fresno hardly ever stops. In comparison here in the UK it's in the low 50's and the trees are slowing down for dormancy after a growing period of around 5 months (late Spring this year). I'd hazard a guess that you'd probably get nigh on double the growth rate there as you do here due to your long growing season but that is again a ball park guess. You're all for put up and shut up (hence me going out in the rain and nearly falling in the pool to get the damn pics) so why don't you start your own growing bed and give us your thoughts of the trees you've developed from small whips in the ground ......

 

[Smoke]

I've tried to answer as best I can your questions but the last one about average conditions is just plain impossible. You've been posting temps of 100 plus lately and the growing season in Fresno hardly ever stops. In comparison here in the UK it's in the low 50's and the trees are slowing down for dormancy after a growing period of around 5 months (late Spring this year). I'd hazard a guess that you'd probably get nigh on double the growth rate there as you do here due to your long growing season but that is again a ball park guess. You're all for put up and shut up (hence me going out in the rain and nearly falling in the pool to get the damn pics) so why don't you start your own growing bed and give us your thoughts of the trees you've developed from small whips in the ground ......

Well......., mostly because I can purchase large juniper material here so cheaply it is not worth my time nor schlocking up my backyard with a bunch of junipers growing in the ground.


FWIW, the nearly falling in the pool visual was pretty damn funny.

 

[pmalelis]

taiwanese junipers

I have seen a few articles that reference taiwanese shimpakus that are feild grown. The ones that i have seen seem enourmous for only being 30 yrs orld and they are very twisted up. Is this growth rate strictly due to the cultivar or how they are grown? I wish there was more detailed accounts as to the training and shaping they are subjected to over the years. Anyone have any information on this?

 

[Rid]

At some point, quite a bit of the current tree is likely sacrifice growth, and will become deadwood, so it's too early to really tell. Grow it big and hard, leave everything and start to think about what the tree can become. As an example, see my shimpaku thread from over the last 2 years. 75% of the tree will become Jin and Shari, and the tree will be styled from just a few of the branches that comprise the best taper and movement.

This link doesn’t work, can you update please Brian?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

This link doesn’t work, can you update please Brian?

That was 5 years ago, and old links didn’t update with the new forum software. You can find it in a search of my Shimpaku threads.

 

[Devo12]

Hey guys! Best mixture of substrate for field growing for these junipers ?
Thanks! From the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[Paulpash]

Thought I'd just share the results of the ground grown Juniper I was developing & talked about in this thread.

 

[berzerkules]

I will revisit this thread when juniper no1 is ready to come out of the ground ....

...8 years later

Thought I'd just share the results of the ground grown Juniper I was developing & talked about in this thread.
View attachment 402974

Delivered as promised. Hats off to you sir.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Theres a guy in Brazil that makes awesome junipers, He grows in the field Juniperus formosana that grows very fast in the tropical climate of brazil, then grafts it with itoigawa. Here Bjorn works them:

 

[Paulpash]

More steps - refinement...