juniper berries, dramm

[leatherback]

my rainwater barrels get cleaned/bleached ever 1-2 months.. and lined

Why?

why you guys go to the trouble of a can

Rainwater.
I mix up rain and well over summer. I prewater with the hose, and do the second with the watering can, in the hope to flush the mineral rich water down or at leas dilute it. Since starting this, they come happier through summer. O r so I tell myself. I asked th trees but they are not confirming.

 

[Iowa newbie]

Curious why you guys go to the trouble of a can? Genuine question - not trying to be an ass. Are your trees too far away from a spigot for a hose? Or is there some other reason? I do use a can for fertlizing once a week but daily watering is a hose and a cheap wand on the shower setting.

The wife may use it for her flowers and we have some herbs on the deck that is far enough away that the can makes it easier.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

This is interesting but not what I would have expected. I was under the impression that much of the country has water that is too far on the acid side. There are water filters like Berkey that will make it more alkaline, that is one of their selling points. Also, if you put tap water in a blender for 10 seconds, you can taste it become more alkaline. It tastes faintly of baking soda. I have heard that humans are supposed to drink acid in the morning and bases in the evening to balance their internal PH.

It sounds like you have a system in place but storing water in a cistern will increase the acidity if that is your goal. Maybe you have already tested this with PH strips and such.

If you are publishing in journals for city engineers and managers, yes from their perspective, most of the nation has water acidic enough to leach lead from lead pipes, solder in copper plumbing and leach lead from brass fittings. So any city would tell you water is acidic. You need a pH greater than 8.0 to prevent lead from leaching into drinking water. If pH is less than 7.8 at the customer's tap, you face fines and possible imprisonment for attempting to kill your customers by lead poisoning. Flint Michigan is a recent case study.

A chemist will tell you pH greater than 7.0 is alkaline. Anything less than 7.0 is acidic. The pH is actually a measurement of available free hydrogen ion concentration.

A horticulturist wants slightly acidic water for majority of plant, trees and shrubs. pH 6.0 to 6.8 is near ideal. Though the useful range is more like 5.0 to 8.5.

So the perspective of the author determines whether water is described as acidic or basic.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Well water tends to come from limestone aquifers, and as a result, tends to be alkaline and to have moderate to high dissolved solids, which, tend to give you moderate to high total alkalinity.

Total alkalinity is a measurement of the buffer capacity for water, expressed as milligrams of calcium carbonate per liter of water. Nursery industry considers water less than 300 mg/liter as calcium carbonate useful for nursery business without requiring treatment to remove the calcium.

Surface water tends to be lower in dissolved solids. If your water comes from the Great Lakes, no treatment is necessary.

If your water comes from a river, dissolved solids tend to be low in spring and during high river flow. The total dissolved solids rises as the river flow volume decreases.

Some aquifers are in sandstone or shale, here there can be more exotic chemistry, most common iron and sulfur present. These are nutrients for plants in moderate qualities.

 

[JackHammer]

If you are publishing in journals for city engineers and managers, yes from their perspective, most of the nation has water acidic enough to leach lead from lead pipes, solder in copper plumbing and leach lead from brass fittings. So any city would tell you water is acidic. You need a pH greater than 8.0 to prevent lead from leaching into drinking water. If pH is less than 7.8 at the customer's tap, you face fines and possible imprisonment for attempting to kill your customers by lead poisoning. Flint Michigan is a recent case study.

A chemist will tell you pH greater than 7.0 is alkaline. Anything less than 7.0 is acidic. The pH is actually a measurement of available free hydrogen ion concentration.

A horticulturist wants slightly acidic water for majority of plant, trees and shrubs. pH 6.0 to 6.8 is near ideal. Though the useful range is more like 5.0 to 8.5.

So the perspective of the author determines whether water is described as acidic or basic.

This is all really good info. Thanks for taking the time to put that all down.

That does make sense and I think I agree.

I do have a hole in my understanding though. When there is clay soil, lime is sometimes added to vegetables to break down the soil. Fire-wood ashes are also said to do a similar thing for a garden. But- ashes and lime are both higher on the alkali side. I understand some plants like acid but why would anyone be adding an alkali substance? I guess the answer is likely "depends on the situation, plant, soil and PH, you want the right balance...".

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

This is all really good info. Thanks for taking the time to put that all down.

That does make sense and I think I agree.

I do have a hole in my understanding though. When there is clay soil, lime is sometimes added to vegetables to break down the soil. Fire-wood ashes are also said to do a similar thing for a garden. But- ashes and lime are both higher on the alkali side. I understand some plants like acid but why would anyone be adding an alkali substance? I guess the answer is likely "depends on the situation, plant, soil and PH, you want the right balance...".

Gypsum = calcium sulfate is often added to clay soils to break up the clay. The gypsum breaks up the sticky sheets of electrostatic or hydrostatic charge at microscopic level in the clay. As a result the clay forms peds, little clumps or balls of clay, rather than a large lump of clay. Aluminum sulfate also has a similar function. Both are sold at nurseries for this purpose. Peat and organic compost work better for breaking up clay, but must be added in larger volume, approaching 1:4 organics to clay, in some cases even more organics must be added.

Lime, can refer to calcium oxide, calcium hydroxide and to calcium carbonate. Calcium oxide is most commonly used to make mortar, and as a component of cement for concrete. Horticultural lime is either slaked calcium oxide (water added and allowed to neutralize by exposure to carbon dioxide in the air) or it is crushed limestone, which is also calcium carbonate. Both products are called horticultural lime, the slaked lime is usually a very fine powder. The crushed limestone has a more coarse texture, like play sand or a little coarser.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Wood ash and hort lime work in similar fashion to gypsum to disrupt the large scale structure of clay. They allow the clay to break up into smaller pellets, or peds in soil science terms.