JBP-Humble Beginnings From Seed

[Eric Schrader]

Good looking plants for just one year old. Looks like they are enjoying all the room around them in those containers. Keep em rolling and start another batch next year or the year after if you have room!

 

[KennedyMarx]

Looks good! At this rate next year you'll have a ton of sprouting seeds survive. I am going to start a batch next year, hopefully I can learn from you guys and not completely kill all mine off with damping or fungus.

 

[sikadelic]

Good looking plants for just one year old. Looks like they are enjoying all the room around them in those containers. Keep em rolling and start another batch next year or the year after if you have room!

Thanks. I definitely plan to start a batch each year. I don't know how many I will be able to keep up with after a few years, but at least 5 per year so I can get the hang of growing them out and learn all the details. This is my first experience with JBPs.

Looks good! At this rate next year you'll have a ton of sprouting seeds survive. I am going to start a batch next year, hopefully I can learn from you guys and not completely kill all mine off with damping or fungus.

The damping off really put a damper rolleyes on things. I would have at least had 15+ more survive if I hadn't kept them so damp under the dome with the heating pad. But, you live and learn and hopefully you won't have the same problem. Good luck!

 

[KennedyMarx]

I'm thinking about buying a bulk stash of JBP seeds, but I don't want to plant a thousand of them next spring. Will the remaining seeds be good for another year or two? I haven't found anything about a seeds viablility timeline.

 

[jeanluc83]

I'm not sure about long term viability of seeds but I would recommend planting a minimum of 100 seeds. I started pitch pine in the spring. Of the 100 seeds I started with I have about 25 seedlings that are still going strong. Of those about half were seedling cuttings. I would probably have more but I had some "help" from my boys.

Plant more than you think you are going to need and trade, sell or give the extras away. In the beginning there really isn't much to do. It will be a few years down the road when they start to become more work.

Also the price difference between 25 seeds and 100 seeds is minimal (even 250 isn't much more).

Good luck.

 

[KennedyMarx]

Thanks, Josef. I figured I would plant a couple hundred at least hoping for at least a 50% yield. I'm not sure if that's a little ambitious or not for a first time grower. I've found a good source of 2 inch seed starter pots on eBay. Comes out to around 12 cents a pot. Monetarily, I figure the cost of the pot, seed, and soil will be less than a fifty cent investment per plant.

 

[tmmason10]

Thanks, Josef. I figured I would plant a couple hundred at least hoping for at least a 50% yield. I'm not sure if that's a little ambitious or not for a first time grower. I've found a good source of 2 inch seed starter pots on eBay. Comes out to around 12 cents a pot. Monetarily, I figure the cost of the pot, seed, and soil will be less than a fifty cent investment per plant.

I think 50% is very achievable, especially if you have followed bonsai tonight and other resources. At this point I am prefering smaller batches but starting them yearly. If you have the room and time I guess the more the merrier.

 

[jeanluc83]

I agree that 50% is very reasonable.

I would forgo the seed starter pots. Go with a shallow box instead. If you are going to be doing seedling cuttings they will only be in the original pots for a few weeks so there is not much point wasting money on individual pots. If you're going to grow them out without doing seedling cuttings you would need to remove them after the first year anyway so again it's not really worth having them in individual pots.

I started mine in one of those 72 cell seed starter trays and ended up repotting them into an old clementine box. I am going to repot everything into individual 4 or 5 inch pots in the spring.

 

[KennedyMarx]

Josef, I planned on starting them in a tray then when cutting them into seedling cuttings transplanting each one into its own starter pot like I saw on BonsaiTonight. Are you not doing the seedling cutting technique? Maybe I'll do half seedling cutting and the other half normal as a test.

 

[sikadelic]

Josef, I planned on starting them in a tray then when cutting them into seedling cuttings transplanting each one into its own starter pot

I will definitely do a tray next time. It will cut down a lot of prep time.

 

[jeanluc83]

Josef, I planned on starting them in a tray then when cutting them into seedling cuttings transplanting each one into its own starter pot like I saw on BonsaiTonight. Are you not doing the seedling cutting technique? Maybe I'll do half seedling cutting and the other half normal as a test.

I will preface this by saying my experience is with growing pitch pine from seed. I also have a batch of JBP that were purchased as bare root seedlings this spring. I am a far way from being an expert.

Based on my experience with the bare root JBP seedlings your 2" seed starter pots will be too small. My seedlings have just about tippled in diameter and are now about 12" tall. They are in #1 nursery pots which translates to .7 gal and about 7" dia. They will be repotted in the spring into pond baskets. I think the rules about overpotting can be bent for seedlings.

Your seedling cuttings will be set back slightly from mine but not by all that much. I would go with 4" pots. You can get those on ebay for a reasonable price.

My pitch pine seedling are about half seedling cuttings and half uncut. They will be repotted into individual pots in the spring. It will be interesting to see the deference in roots between the two. In terms of top development the seedling cuttings are really not far behind the uncut ones. You can look at my pitch pine experiment post to see what I did.

 

[DhD47]

I’m starting some pine from seed this spring as well. In my case it is pitch pine, pinus rigidia. I was going to start some black pine as well but purchased some 1 year old bare root seedlings instead. They were fairly cheap and I figured I would not have to worry about seeds germinating. I wanted to start some pitch pine because I believe that they are not utilized enough and to my knowledge no one is starting them from seed for bonsai.

I may try seedling cuttings for some of them depending on my germination success rate. I’m not sure that I am completely sold on the need to do cuttings. You get a uniform radial root spread but that is part of the problem. Dan Robinson told me not to, specifically because of this. There was also just an article on Bonsai Tonight about this very subject.

A seedling cutting with too many roots

Good luck.

Where did you get your bare root seedlings? I was interested in starting some this spring and wanted to start looking into that this winter.
Dave

 

[jeanluc83]

Where did you get your bare root seedlings? I was interested in starting some this spring and wanted to start looking into that this winter.
Dave

I got mine from ebay user kaedebonsai-en. He also has a website and I believe he is a member here. He even gave me extras because the price went down between when I placed my order and when it went through. I ordered 10 and he sent 21! I only lost 1. Be aware that they are straight seedlings and not seedling cuttings.

 

[sikadelic]

Final picture update for the year. I was pleased with the amount of growth I got this year and will fertilize very, heavily next year to motivate low branches on those that didnt throw any this year. Again, these were started from seed this year and all received the seedling cutting technique.

 

[DhD47]

I think this thread is a must read for anyone wanting to grow JBP from seeds.

I have a question about the seed cuttings. I understand the seedling is cut early but can you cut it again or is it you only cut it one of the two times?

I ordered my seeds and will be starting them soon.

Thanks for all the information.

D

 

[jeanluc83]

I have a question about the seed cuttings. I understand the seedling is cut early but can you cut it again or is it you only cut it one of the two times?

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are asking. It is risky enough cutting all the roots off once let alone doing it multiple times.

The article in the Pines book does have a figure showing an optional second cutting. It appears that for the second cutting you don't remove all the roosts just the lower ones. It is hard to say because there is not much in the article explaining the figure. Everyone I have found that use the technique have only done the one cutting.

 

[DhD47]

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are asking. It is risky enough cutting all the roots off once let alone doing it multiple times.

The article in the Pines book does have a figure showing an optional second cutting. It appears that for the second cutting you don't remove all the roosts just the lower ones. It is hard to say because there is not much in the article explaining the figure. Everyone I have found that use the technique have only done the one cutting.

I just got my copy of the Pines book and I see what you are talking about for the second cutting. I wish there was more about that in the article. Does anyone here know more about this second cutting of the seedling? Looks like they also show you getting 2 seedlings from the second cutting. The information we are referring to is on page 143 of the Bonsai Today's Pines book.

Dave

 

[sikadelic]

Well I regretfully have to inform you all that all my little pines are dead. I can only assume it was due to my move and extreme weather change they experienced. I moved from SC where it was in the high 60s last November to Southern Indiana where it was below freezing. This transition was terrible for the trees as even the garage was much too cold for them right away. I think I would have been much better off with some other type of cold storage.

All my junipers died as well but I didn't lose any deciduous trees. I thought I may have been underwatering during the winter but I would think that if that was the case, I would have lost other trees as well that don't like to be as dry as the evergreens.

Oh well, back to the drawing board! Good luck to the others that embarked on this project.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I mourn with you. Your 1 year old JBP were looking better than mine.

 

[Eric Group]

Well I regretfully have to inform you all that all my little pines are dead. I can only assume it was due to my move and extreme weather change they experienced. I moved from SC where it was in the high 60s last November to Southern Indiana where it was below freezing. This transition was terrible for the trees as even the garage was much too cold for them right away. I think I would have been much better off with some other type of cold storage.

All my junipers died as well but I didn't lose any deciduous trees. I thought I may have been underwatering during the winter but I would think that if that was the case, I would have lost other trees as well that don't like to be as dry as the evergreens.

Oh well, back to the drawing board! Good luck to the others that embarked on this project.

Sad man... I wish we had known in advance, I could have traded you some Deciduous for a couple of those Pines to save them! Lol

Might be that if you start the trees there, they will do fine..